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Re:Why not program right? by TeMPOraL on Friday July 06, 2018 @06:15PM (#17475529)
I suppose - and this applies generally, not just to programming - people (myself included) don't exactly like market's idea of "perfect". Because free-market perfect isn't just nice-sounding "solution that does the job for the lowest cost over time" - it's the borderline cheapest, ugliest, worst solution that's only barely fit for its purpose, and if it was any worse, it would be unsellable. It's aiming for the absolute lower bound - as any possible way to make it cheaper is taken.

The problems with market!perfection are many - mostly resolving around short-term optimization, externalities and lack of alignment between market values and human values. But we have brains that can be used to get better outcome than what the market incentivizes by default.

Re:Why not program right? by kbenson on Friday July 06, 2018 @06:23PM (#17475570)
> The problems with market!perfection are many - mostly resolving around short-term optimization, externalities

Almost all bugs, security of otherwise, are just negative externalities. I think the public has been conditioned to accept that software not only comes with bugs, but many of them, and there's nothing that can be done about it. Companies/developers/publishers are not penalized much at all for buggy software, so much so that it's a common business tactic to deliver crappy software that doesn't even accomplish what it states it does, much less bug free and without security problems, with the understanding that it can be fixed up after delivery with little negative consequences.

Re:Why not program right? by tchaffee on Friday July 06, 2018 @06:33PM (#17475641)
Totally agree. After decades of programming my "aesthetics" around what makes a high quality program are far higher than what the market will (usually) pay for.

This applies to many professions we consider a craft. I'm sure some guys slamming up 2x4s for carbon copy houses in the suburbs would rather be building timber frame homes with inlaid custom woodwork.

Re:Why not program right? by TeMPOraL on Friday July 06, 2018 @06:45PM (#17475692)
The problem starts when your constructipn guys start to cheap out to the point they violate some expectations you may have about your house that you don't realize. Like that walls should actually support the load with some margin, so that the whole thing doesn't collapse after first hole you drill. Or that elecrical cabling shouln't me aluminum wrapped in paper. It may sound like a strawman, but we have tons of regulation (paid for in blood) in this space precisely because markets incentivize people to cheat if they can get away with it.

I see markets like combustion. A powerful force if you can contain and channel it, but an absolute disaster if you let it roam free.

Re:Why not program right? by perl4ever on Friday July 06, 2018 @06:28PM (#17475608)
I don't think that's correct. You're describing the marginal solution that the market produces, not the average solution. And because demands are always changing, the market never converges on that optimum you are presenting as a bogeyman. It's not realistic any more than all profits being competed away to zero.
Re:Why not program right? by TeMPOraL on Friday July 06, 2018 @06:53PM (#17475726)
Yes, I've described the solution in the limit, in the same sense a physicist could write: lim t -> ∞ ... A limit doesn't itself happen in real life, but shows you where a system is going.

As for a proof that this is happening, there are plenty of examples if you look at the highly competitive spaces and consider goods you usually buy, and how they evolved over past decades. Food and tools are two obvious cases that come to mind.