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Re:Things That Happen in Silicon Valley and Also the Soviet ... by danharaj on Friday July 06, 2018 @12:15PM (#17472618)
> Even if the only outcome (as it seems to be) is getting rid of a dictator,

Innocent people died, friend.

Re:Things That Happen in Silicon Valley and Also the Soviet ... by joejerryronnie on Friday July 06, 2018 @12:56PM (#17472982)
It's not as straight forward as this. Many innocent people died (and would have continued to die) at the hands of Saddam Hussein's regime. So, was removing a ruthless dictator a good thing to do? On the surface, probably yes, but Saddam's removal left a huge power vacuum in the region, allowing even more extreme and violent factions to set up shop. So, in the end, would it have been better to leave a known genocide practitioner in place to maintain regional stability?
Re:Things That Happen in Silicon Valley and Also the Soviet ... by neuland on Friday July 06, 2018 @12:29PM (#17472729)
This is a very good answer.

It puts us in the situation of weighing the suffering and death of the war against the continued Saddam rule. That's an interesting debate where it is possible that the invasion was less good.

Re:Things That Happen in Silicon Valley and Also the Soviet ... by danharaj on Friday July 06, 2018 @12:35PM (#17472788)
Do you understand how bonkers it sounds to play calculus with millions of lives in the service of geopolitics?
Re:Things That Happen in Silicon Valley and Also the Soviet ... by eeeuo on Friday July 06, 2018 @12:55PM (#17472972)
Did you feel the invasion of Germany in 1944 was in the services of geopolitics?

It's not geopolitics to try and determine if fewer people would die with or without Saddam in power. Saddam's chemical attacks against civilians are well documented and not widely disputed. His internal security apparatus was open with their brutality in order to induce fear on the population.

I think that the 2nd Iraq War was a mistake, particularly how the government misled the people, but I find it absolutely baffling when people will not even honestly address the situation in good faith. You cannot simply argue that "many people civilians died as a result of the Iraq War therefore it's bad" without addressing the situation beforehand. Lots of people died during the Allied invasion of Germany, but I think most people would agree that it was the correct thing to do.

Re:Things That Happen in Silicon Valley and Also the Soviet ... by danharaj on Friday July 06, 2018 @01:17PM (#17473197)
> I think that the 2nd Iraq War was a mistake, particularly how the government mislead the people, but I find it absolutely baffling when people will not even honestly address the situation in good faith.

The justification for the war was obviously fabricated, so I don't know what sort of good faith you are asking for. Perhaps to debate some post hoc justification for a thoughtless decision that was paid for with the lives of people who didn't have a choice in the matter? People who touch such questions are only going to injure their humanity.

By the way, when you think about the question of WW2 in terms of "when to intervene" instead of "whether to intervene at all", it becomes as murky and vicious a question as can be, and it ought to make anyone queasy to examine in close detail the decisions made throughout the period. That said, the neoconservative methodology of deciding who to bomb has no justification and people who want to debate that have more urgent issues to address.

Re:Things That Happen in Silicon Valley and Also the Soviet ... by eeeuo on Friday July 06, 2018 @01:29PM (#17473336)
I suspect those inside the Warsaw Ghetto may have had different views on intervention than you do.

I absolutely agree that talking about intervention is murky, which was precisely my point.

Re:Things That Happen in Silicon Valley and Also the Soviet ... by sneak on Friday July 06, 2018 @12:20PM (#17472650)
Hundreds of thousands of people. Some estimates put the number at a million.