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Re:How 'DevOps' Is Killing the Developer (2014) by lmm on Thursday June 28, 2018 @10:07AM (#17416952)
Task-switching is expensive, but human-to-human communication is more so. As one of those "bright" developers, I'd far rather just do the deployment myself than hand it over to someone less skilled so I can focus on doing more coding, because that's only going to mean I then get interrupted when there's a problem with the deployment.
Re:How 'DevOps' Is Killing the Developer (2014) by jwitko on Thursday June 28, 2018 @10:13AM (#17416998)
This, exactly. This is basically the entire pitch for my DevOps as a Service business. Let your developers focus on the core product, we'll handle the infrastructure. I don't think employers always realize the productivity and benefits of letting their developers truly focus.
Re:How 'DevOps' Is Killing the Developer (2014) by jiveturkey on Thursday June 28, 2018 @06:36PM (#17421028)
You completely misread GP. He said he would rather be devops b/c the handover is too expensive.
Re:How 'DevOps' Is Killing the Developer (2014) by dsr_ on Thursday June 28, 2018 @10:11AM (#17416983)
When the company is five people, doing the deployment yourself is a necessity.

When you have a dozen developers working on the same project, doing the deployment yourself is a danger to the company.

Re:How 'DevOps' Is Killing the Developer (2014) by lmm on Thursday June 28, 2018 @10:32AM (#17417159)
> When you have a dozen developers working on the same project, doing the deployment yourself is a danger to the company.

How and why? There may come a point where it's worth segregating deployment from development, but I'm certain it's a long way north of a dozen.

Re:How 'DevOps' Is Killing the Developer (2014) by workinfunk on Thursday June 28, 2018 @11:19AM (#17417580)
Really? You put a dozen people on the same _project_? I find it hard to believe that your project is so unique that A) requires 12 devs and B) is also deployable by all 12 of them (without relying on automation) in a way that doesn't throw off any of the other 12.
Re:How 'DevOps' Is Killing the Developer (2014) by lmm on Thursday June 28, 2018 @11:32AM (#17417714)
I don't know what you mean by "relying on automation" or "throwing off the other 12".

Deployment is mostly-automated - put a note in our chat channel topic that you're deploying (or queue if someone else is already deploying), push a button to do a release and deploy as staging (and a small smoke test), do any manual testing (or investigation of logs etc. if something goes wrong), push another button to flip that deploy to be prod.

Any of the 12 devs can do this (and does, we each deploy our own features/stories), any of the 12 devs can make changes to the deployment scripting just like with any other code area (some will be more or less familiar with them, but that's true of any area of the codebase). Nothing unique about it, quite the opposite.

Re:How 'DevOps' Is Killing the Developer (2014) by workinfunk on Thursday June 28, 2018 @02:11PM (#17419189)
If your deployment is automated, your developers aren't doing the deployment, the machine is, and the argument is moot.
Re:How 'DevOps' Is Killing the Developer (2014) by lmm on Thursday June 28, 2018 @06:42PM (#17421072)
Developers automate things, that's their whole job. The point is that we don't have people in dedicated ops/sysadmin roles, and are better for it.
Re:How 'DevOps' Is Killing the Developer (2014) by workinfunk on Thursday June 28, 2018 @11:24PM (#17422163)
I believe we are violently agreeing at this point.
Re:How 'DevOps' Is Killing the Developer (2014) by loriverkutya on Thursday June 28, 2018 @10:26AM (#17417112)
Then we are a company living very dangerously, cause any of our developers can deploy :)
Re:How 'DevOps' Is Killing the Developer (2014) by dsr_ on Thursday June 28, 2018 @01:58PM (#17419077)
What's the maximum cost to your company if one of your developers has a really bad day and deploys a release that accidentally allows all customers to see each others' data?

For my company, that would probably be a death blow.

Re:How 'DevOps' Is Killing the Developer (2014) by rootlocus on Thursday June 28, 2018 @11:01AM (#17417402)
Ideally, you should trigger a deploy by tagging a commit in the VCS.
Re:How 'DevOps' Is Killing the Developer (2014) by throwaway151514 on Thursday June 28, 2018 @10:44AM (#17417234)
> hand it over to someone less skilled

I'm mostly in Ops and I often find myself getting handed something from less skilled developers to run in production. It's frustrating too.