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Re:Facebook’s patents show a commitment to collecting person... by TaylorAlexander on Sunday June 24, 2018 @08:21PM (#17389096)
I’m becoming more of the opinion that all intellectual property law is immoral on the grounds that it creates artificial barriers to prosperity for individuals who don’t receive the benefits of the patents. I work hard on personal projects (robots) that I think would be useful to others and I share them all CC0 or BSD licensed. I think it would be useful for economists to consider the way patents exacerbate inequality.

That said, my employer has filed a patent for some work I did for them, and it’s a tough issue for me. In this case, I don’t think the innovation is so world changing that I need to fight for it to be open, nor do I think they would honor my desire to leave it unpatented as I’m not really in a position to ask for that.

But it’s an issue I feel uncomfortable with, and I kind of dream of moving to a different place where my employer doesn’t try to patent my work.

It is tough when they offer you a few thousand for these ideas you come up with. That money could help me build a family, but in closing off these ideas I’m making it harder for everyone else to prosper.

FWIW, if anyone says “patents encourage innovation” I would ask you for citations. I understand this is the story we’re told, but it’s typically presented with simple anecdotal evidence and hunches. I’ve never seen a thorough study of the issue.

Re:Facebook’s patents show a commitment to collecting person... by pritchardgelman on Sunday June 24, 2018 @08:52PM (#17389217)
>intellectual property law is immoral on the grounds that it creates artificial barriers to prosperity for individuals who don’t receive the benefits of the patents

It is also a wealth transfer from the poor to the wealthy: the justice system protecting IP capital is financed by taxpayers, the hard majority of which hold no patents.

Re:Facebook’s patents show a commitment to collecting person... by pjc50 on Monday June 25, 2018 @08:11AM (#17391678)
I do think the time is long overdue for IPR "property tax" as an anti-squatting measure and a defence against increasingly long copyright terms.

Disney making billions off Mickey Mouse? They can pay a tiny fraction of that and they can have their extension.

Novel by obscure dead author? Don't extend the copyright unless the estate wants to pay for it.

Abandoned and nobody to pay the tax? Enters the public domain.

All those defensive spurious patents? They impose a search cost on every single other innovator. There should be a carrying cost for the defensive patent wall.

Re:Facebook’s patents show a commitment to collecting person... by dannyw on Monday June 25, 2018 @09:38AM (#17392294)
I think that's a great idea. The value of an IP could be self-assessed, with the caveat that any party has an option to purchase the IP for e.g. 125% of the self-assessed value.

The tax on this value could scale from 1% for year 10 onwards, increasing by 0.25% per year. Year 50 of your copyright? Be prepared to pay 11% APR rent on its value.

Re:Facebook’s patents show a commitment to collecting person... by toomuchtodo on Sunday June 24, 2018 @11:23PM (#17389712)
Consider that the majority of federal tax revenues are generated by top income earners. It’s more of a wealth transfer between different groups of the wealthy.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/10/06/a-closer-loo...

Re:Facebook’s patents show a commitment to collecting person... by quadrangle on Monday June 25, 2018 @12:48AM (#17389952)
Patents take money from the poor by denying them the prosperity at low-cost that would happen if there were no patents.

Patents are government-enforced monopolies. They enable all of what anyone would expect with monopolies, namely high prices for consumers.

Re:Facebook’s patents show a commitment to collecting person... by toomuchtodo on Monday June 25, 2018 @01:12AM (#17390022)
Reasonably time limited patents are a necessary component of incentivizing innovation, without which consumers would not realize new goods and services based off of those innovations.
Re:Facebook’s patents show a commitment to collecting person... by dTal on Monday June 25, 2018 @04:23AM (#17390787)
There was plenty of innovation before patents. The purpose of patents was never to incentivize innovation. The purpose was to incentivize disclosure, to allow the progress of society by revealing trade secrets (in exchange for which they would be protected from competitors for a time).

If you've ever tried to read a patent, you'll know this system has failed. In almost no cases can you meaningfully replicate an invention from a patent. Quite apart from which, a huge number of things under patent protection today are public knowledge anyway, or can be considered 'obvious'.

Re:Facebook’s patents show a commitment to collecting person... by setr on Monday June 25, 2018 @04:31AM (#17390821)
>Reasonably time limited patents are a necessary component of incentivizing innovation

Ive never been satisfied with this necessity; its not like innovation would just seize without patents: innovation in processes is still incentivized, because falling behind would mean higher prices than competition, and lost market share, so you still need to r&d to at least match the competition, let alone best it. Innovation in consumer products is still incentivized, by first movers effect, though perhaps the easiest copied things are lost (ie plastic lids might be too easy to copy design updates). Innovation in software obviously wont stop, and shenzhen succeeds in electronics with lax (absent?) patent/copyright law.

The primary innovation patents might be necessary for is a small company taking on a larger one, and needing to protect its design while it gets itself going.... but in practice, it proposed hinders innovation there more than it helps.

Patents, I think, are about essentially open-sourcing the design of things, and the incentive to do so is a temporary, gov-enforced monopoly. If theres any idea about innovation, its in the long-term, as 5,10,20 years from now, we can read up on these ideas and build on top of them, instead of seeing them lost in time with the company's demise.

Re:Facebook’s patents show a commitment to collecting person... by bad_user on Monday June 25, 2018 @06:54AM (#17391344)
One argument is that small companies can't out-compete big companies in efficiency due to lack of resources, therefore patents give them the necessary time to bring their products to market.

However I never found that argument to be believable. Big companies have such a vast patents portfolio that it's impossible for small companies that try to create a product to not infringe on anything. So what happens many times in practice are actually cross-licensing deals.

Therefore small companies developing some innovative algorithm or technology are better off keeping it a trade secret until launch.

Re:Facebook’s patents show a commitment to collecting person... by aglavine on Monday June 25, 2018 @01:16AM (#17390034)
I am as against patents as anybody else, but I wish that people talk more about the original idea behind it: if next-door wealthy guy can copy everything you invent, then there is few incentive if any to create anything new.
Re:Facebook’s patents show a commitment to collecting person... by plokiju on Monday June 25, 2018 @02:55AM (#17390422)
That argument has always felt like it came out of economics 101. Maybe in a world where everyone is a rational economic actor motivated only by maximizing profits, people wouldn't make anything new without a patent.

In the real world, open source and open research communities have no shortage of innovation, even without being able to place artificial blocks on the competition. It turns out, creator's motivations are more complicated than making money alone.

In my opinion, innovation might move a bit slower without the money injections from VCs who can be confident they can get patents and a safe ROI, but I think we'd be better off in the long run if we allowed creators to build off past ideas without the fear of being sued.

Re:Facebook’s patents show a commitment to collecting person... by setr on Monday June 25, 2018 @04:36AM (#17390842)
Even with rational actors, it doesn't really hold. You still have to innovate, because if you go stagnant and the competition does innovate, you're fucked. At the very least, you have to be capable of constantly updating your copies to match the competition, and you'd at best reach parity (unless the cost of original r&d was enormous, and time/cost to copy was minimal), which won't maximize profit.
Re:Facebook’s patents show a commitment to collecting person... by dTal on Monday June 25, 2018 @04:25AM (#17390795)
That was never the purpose. See my comment above.
Re:Facebook’s patents show a commitment to collecting person... by skykooler on Monday June 25, 2018 @11:47AM (#17393315)
Especially as filing a patent costs several hundred dollars. If you have an idea but not much money, you can't afford to patent it (or might have to make the choice between buying a patent or marketing your invention).
Re:Facebook’s patents show a commitment to collecting person... by citilife on Sunday June 24, 2018 @09:07PM (#17389271)
> It is tough when they offer you a few thousand for these ideas you come up with. That money could help me build a family, but in closing off these ideas I’m making it harder for everyone else to prosper.

I don't disagree. I look at it as a way for me to profit, I have to be pragmatic, unfortunately. I do donate 25% of each bonus to the EFF and personally I look at it another way...

This problem is going to get worse before it gets better. If I don't do this someone else will. The powers that be want this, and the lower levels like myself live on a bounty. It'll eventually fix itself, but until then I can net enough money to pay off my student loans, my cars, my house.