It is tricky, because the person can be aware you are aware of this, as you are trying to help. They may have been aware of it the whole time. And with every attempt to 'fix' the issue, the problem just gets reinvented. I say fix as in 'direct, require, guide with an expectation, approve'.
Because that's what a person with a problem keeps doing. Over and over. And they eventually come to realize the way you see things. They could potentially be still hurting others or themselves. Over and over. But it can't be helped sometimes. You can try to control every detail and there's still that little room for improvement. Eventually it comes down to minutia - obsession with things that really have no relevance to the overall problem. The problem has instead turned into a dynamic of leading and following - one has to be right, the other has to approve of the information given by being 'fixed'.
And that's sometimes enough for a person to just want to constantly go 'fuck it', because it's completely ignorant to all the positives - both from the help you've provided, and the improvement they've made. And if you let them see that you've been helped in the process too, that's validating for them and that's validating to you too.
If you don't understand their problem in entirety, you have no goalpost to define for them. And the problem might be that they just want to accept themselves without the identity of 'having a problem'. But they just might not have figured out the words to say that yet, or they may be afraid of letting go of that identity because what if bad things happen the way they've come to expect? They may have both awareness - that they need to let go of the identity of having a perpetual problem, but also, some of those fears go very deep, and it's not so much that 'having a problem' is an excuse, it's more that, they've had shitty experiences, and the past can't be rewritten. It takes time to heal, accept the past for what it is, and be able to persist through the present while letting go of whatever fears they have.
A lot of people with 'a problem' blame themselves. By trying to fix it for them, it doesn't allow them to see they can fix their own problems.
Thank you for your reply as well!
There is a tremendous amount of context that is critical to fully understanding a person’s situation. Most often, there is a lot that doesn’t get revealed. It’s extremely tough being in any condition mentally or physically that, even with our supposedly best tools and research, can’t yet be addressed. the weighty of that could also conceivably fuel a cycle of degrading the condition of the other (physical -> psychological -> physical etc..).
In the particular situations I’m thinking of, these considerations need to be made and the complexities explored. It can be tricky at times, but I try and take the time to understand what the context is that I might be missing. What problem are they really trying to address? What’s led them to seek X treatment? Were there negative experiences in the past that either failed them or complicated their situation? I say it can be tricky, because I never want to see them do harm to themselves or others, but what they’re doing might have potential to do that. Often times it is just a matter of realizing that this person is going through some struggle and trying to find something that works for them. I won’t fault a person for that. Trying new workout routines that I find on YouTube is something I do, but with no particular expectation that I can expect anything definitive from the variety of sources I’m using. Others, such as the hypothetical, but not unrealistic case of a Naturopath who might have sold a bill of goods to a cancer patient, leading them to go off radiation therapy and subsequently die, are a bit different.
Your attempt at finding a balance between the polar opposite and probably unhealthy approaches your relatives have taken is an admirable effort. It’s tricky to break habits you might have been raised with and I can definitely relate. My father has, to minimally variation, eaten peanut butter sandwiches on white bread, along with large fountain drinks and no doctor appointments for the last 20 years or so. If you’re a person who wants to improve your well-being, already you’re off to a good start. That keeps you above the extreme of not caring. If you’re a person who seeks information from multiple sources and can critically examine it, you’re likely to come across confounding evidence quite frequently, which is less likely to get you to the upper extreme of thinking that every problem can be addressed or that there is a definite solution at all. Things are not clear cut in this world.
Everyone has their own self-care problems. The best we can do as individuals is more than nothing but less than everything. Look for good information, and try to do well for yourself.
Lastly, I do get your point and agree that things are puzzling. Puzzles can be fun though.