Suffering, not just happiness, weighs in the utilitarian calculus

Re:Suffering, not just happiness, weighs in the utilitarian ... by CuriouslyC on Monday June 11, 2018 @02:27PM (#17286960)

If utilitarianism wasn't practically difficult enough, human perception is adaptable. We don't perceive stimuli in absolute terms, but rather relative to whatever we've normalized. Thus the experience of suffering actually lets us experience pleasure more readily (the reverse is also true).

Additionally, due to the quirks of memory, adding some pain to a pleasurable experience at the right time will paradoxically cause people to remember it as being more pleasurable. This is completely at odds with a simple moral calculus.

It would be interesting to set a science fiction story in a world where an accurate moral calculus had been developed.

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Re:Suffering, not just happiness, weighs in the utilitarian ... by lisper on Monday June 11, 2018 @02:47PM (#17287187)

> adding some pain to a pleasurable experience at the right time will paradoxically cause people to remember it as being more pleasurable

Even more paradoxical, some kinds of physical pain are actually remembered as pleasurable in and of themselves, like eating spicy food, or running a marathon.

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Re:Suffering, not just happiness, weighs in the utilitarian ... by kudokatz on Tuesday June 12, 2018 @10:52AM (#17293769)

> Even more paradoxical ... running a marathon

As a runner this feels like a statement that shows some (very reasonable) ignorance of feelings and motivations. Achievement through empowerment of hard work can be a very healthy way for a successful marathon to be pleasurable.

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Re:Suffering, not just happiness, weighs in the utilitarian ... by lisper on Tuesday June 12, 2018 @03:47PM (#17297285)

How is that different from what I said?

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Re:Suffering, not just happiness, weighs in the utilitarian ... by hnisgroupthink on Wednesday June 13, 2018 @02:40AM (#17300798)

Why do you think that experiencing suffering lets you experience pleasure more readily?

I think it just sounds good. Most people who experience significant suffering can be damaged beyond repair.

The shell shocked war vet doesn't necessarily see life as more beautiful afterwards.

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Re:Suffering, not just happiness, weighs in the utilitarian ... by CuriouslyC on Wednesday June 13, 2018 @10:17AM (#17303259)

Research demonstrates that it's true in the short term. The long term is another matter. There are plenty of anecdotes about people who grow up with nothing who are more resilient to deprivation as adults because of it, but PTSD is a real thing too, so clearly the situation is complex.

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