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Re:The ties between Silicon Valley and the military run deep by skybrian on Saturday June 09, 2018 @12:11PM (#17273662)
Two problems with this argument. You're blaming the military for decisions made by civilian leadership. And, it's not wrong to do what we can to reduce risk both for soldiers and civilians. Adding more risk wouldn't be an improvement.

Military spending is certainly tremendously wasteful, though.

Re:The ties between Silicon Valley and the military run deep by greggarious on Saturday June 09, 2018 @01:26PM (#17273985)
>Two problems with this argument. You're blaming the military for decisions made by civilian leadership.

We have a volunteer army and have been engaging in "adventures" as far back as Vietnam. No one goes in not knowing what they'll be asked to do.

Re:The ties between Silicon Valley and the military run deep by mieseratte on Saturday June 09, 2018 @01:38PM (#17274042)
> We have a volunteer army and have been engaging in "adventures" as far back as Vietnam. No one goes in not knowing what they'll be asked to do.

Vietnam prominently featured draftees, and in post-9/11 America the public was heavily led to believe that Iraq was somehow responsible or related to the 9/11 attacks such that one would have not reasonably known what they were signing up for.

Re:The ties between Silicon Valley and the military run deep by greggarious on Saturday June 09, 2018 @01:42PM (#17274057)
>Vietnam prominently featured draftees

Yes, the implication was that since then we've had a volunteer army. Sorry that wasn't clear to you.

>in post-9/11 America the public was heavily led to believe that Iraq was somehow responsible or related to the 9/11 attacks such that one would have not reasonably known what they were signing up for.

Weird, I was in my early teens then and somehow managed to suss out this was not the case (as did many prominent columnists).

And the official line on Iraq was that the possessed WMD, not that they did 9/11.

Re:The ties between Silicon Valley and the military run deep by mieseratte on Saturday June 09, 2018 @02:13PM (#17274212)
> Yes, the implication was that since then we've had a volunteer army. Sorry that wasn't clear to you.

Perhaps you should revise your writings, because nothing about the sentence would imply the "since then." This is an international forum, not everyone learns the history of US military recruitment practices.

> Weird, I was in my early teens then and somehow managed to suss out this was not the case (as did many prominent columnists).

I, too, sussed this out in my teenage years but by then the Iraq war was "waning" and the writing was on the wall.

Perhaps you're just much more prescient than I, as well as the millions of young men and women who signed up to serve their country with the belief that Iraq had truly done wrong.

> And the official line on Iraq was that the possessed WMD, not that they did 9/11.

In the lead up to the invasion, our borderline state media apparatus was heavily reporting that Hussein was building WMDs. There was also much accusations of him either funding or supplying Jihadis.

Re:The ties between Silicon Valley and the military run deep by greggarious on Saturday June 09, 2018 @03:21PM (#17274541)
>Perhaps you should revise your writings, because nothing about the sentence would imply the "since then." This is an international forum, not everyone learns the history of US military recruitment practices.

If someone is not a citizen of the USA, and not familiar with how it's military functions, maybe they should take some time to educate themselves before debating how it should be used.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

>In the lead up to the invasion, our borderline state media apparatus was heavily reporting that Hussein was building WMDs. There was also much accusations of him either funding or supplying Jihadis.

It's too bad no government has ever lied or distorted the facts to push for a war prior to Iraq... astute citizens could have learned from that experience and viewed US government proclamations through a critical lens.

Re:The ties between Silicon Valley and the military run deep by mieseratte on Tuesday June 12, 2018 @08:41AM (#17292671)
> If someone is not a citizen of the USA, and not familiar with how it's military functions, maybe they should take some time to educate themselves before debating how it should be used.

I fully understood, being an American. I found it worth pointing out, out of consideration for others.

> It's too bad no government has ever lied or distorted the facts to push for a war prior to Iraq... astute citizens could have learned from that experience and viewed US government proclamations through a critical lens.

Have you considered running for office? Between your flippant rhetoric and amazing understanding of all issues geopolitical you would surely be a great fit!

Re:The ties between Silicon Valley and the military run deep by cmndrkeen on Sunday June 10, 2018 @03:39AM (#17277056)
So prospective military recruits should make sure that the government's position aligns with their political beliefs before enlisting? What about afterwards? Should an isolationist leave the military when we elect an interventionist president, and vice versa?
Re:The ties between Silicon Valley and the military run deep by greggarious on Sunday June 10, 2018 @10:35AM (#17278295)
Please read my previous posts - we have been "interventionist" since the 70s (if not earlier)
Re:The ties between Silicon Valley and the military run deep by mieseratte on Tuesday June 12, 2018 @08:40AM (#17292661)
Your previous post does not answer the question asked.
Re:The ties between Silicon Valley and the military run deep by skybrian on Saturday June 09, 2018 @05:19PM (#17275060)
I do know what you mean, but technically that's false. Soldiers don't what new wars will start or any specifics about what they'll be ordered to do. But, once enlisted, they have to follow orders anyway.
Re:The ties between Silicon Valley and the military run deep by ianleeclark on Saturday June 09, 2018 @12:19PM (#17273702)
The military is the enforcement of the leadership, so it's valid to criticize them. Just taking orders wasn't an excuse at nuremberg and it shouldn't be today, either.
Re:The ties between Silicon Valley and the military run deep by albntomat0 on Saturday June 09, 2018 @12:55PM (#17273848)
At what point should the military refuse the orders of civilian leadership? A tactical level order to shoot civilians (or similar, non-cliche situation) should be disobeyed.

However, is it the military's responsible to disobey the decisions of a duly elected civilian government, such as the Iraq War resolution[0]? Civilian control of the military exists for a reason, and allowing/requiring the military to go against it would have wide ranging consequences. There are definitely unique cases to be explored, but credit/blame need to be assigned to the party responsible for the decision.

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_Resolution