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Re:Nearly 80% of Japan’s Airbnbs removed in response to new ... by Fede_V on Friday June 08, 2018 @12:10PM (#17266835)
I can't wrap my mind around people that think that 'too many tourists' or 'too many jobs' are a problem. Those are 'problems' that most cities in the world would kill for: if we consider them problems it's because we are not nearly creative enough to take advantage of them.

As a simple example: if we have too many tourists, give a progressive daily tax that's charged to every visitor that automatically includes museum visits/etc. Use that revenue to build more housing for local residents (and if some dipshit points out that more housing ruins a neighboorhood's character, ask yourself if Paris or suburbia has more character) or to subsidize local transport infrastructure.

Re:Nearly 80% of Japan’s Airbnbs removed in response to new ... by majormajor on Friday June 08, 2018 @02:05PM (#17268114)
> I can't wrap my mind around people that think that 'too many tourists' or 'too many jobs' are a problem. Those are 'problems' that most cities in the world would kill for: if we consider them problems it's because we are not nearly creative enough to take advantage of them.

Different people want different things. Too much of a good thing isn't always still a good thing. It's not that hard to understand.

Even within the same city! 10% of the city might be tourist facing, 90% not-tourist-facing. So something that's great for that 10% and annoying for the 90% is naturally gonna get some resistance.

Re:Nearly 80% of Japan’s Airbnbs removed in response to new ... by pjc50 on Friday June 08, 2018 @12:18PM (#17266899)
> a progressive daily tax that's charged to every visitor

Lots of places already have this as a "hotel tax" .. which AirBnb doesn't pay.

Re:Nearly 80% of Japan’s Airbnbs removed in response to new ... by xapata on Friday June 08, 2018 @12:31PM (#17267077)
Not true. I've stayed in several places where an extra county-specific tax is imposed via AirBnB.

There may be some places which haven't yet arranged for AirBnB to pay the tax, but it isn't because AirBnB refuses. In fact, it may be because hotels in that area are still holding out for the possibility of banning AirBnB. When AirBnB starts paying hotel taxes, it becomes nearly impossible to remove.

Re:Nearly 80% of Japan’s Airbnbs removed in response to new ... by SOLAR_FIELDS on Friday June 08, 2018 @05:45PM (#17269978)
Venice, mentioned elsewhere in this thread as a problem city because of AirBnB, levies this tax against people who visit and stay in AirBnB
Re:Nearly 80% of Japan’s Airbnbs removed in response to new ... by wool_gather on Saturday June 09, 2018 @10:31AM (#17273211)
This is interesting. How is it enforced and collected?
Re:Nearly 80% of Japan’s Airbnbs removed in response to new ... by xapata on Sunday June 10, 2018 @04:41AM (#17277190)
Separate line item in the nightly rate. It's easy to overlook. It references the locale collecting the tax.
Re:Nearly 80% of Japan’s Airbnbs removed in response to new ... by Cub3 on Saturday June 09, 2018 @02:13PM (#17274209)
Anecdotally when I was staying in Venice two years ago I didn't pay any kind of tax for the Airbnb unless it was worked into the price.
Re:Nearly 80% of Japan’s Airbnbs removed in response to new ... by enra on Saturday June 09, 2018 @02:08PM (#17274184)
It’s collected in most states and in some countries that have elected the tax to cover short term rentals: (including France, Germany, Switzerland, India, Mexico, Brazil, Italy) https://www.airbnb.com/help/article/653/in-what-areas-is-occ...

Outside of that list, the host may have to collect it themselves if the location is not supported yet: https://www.airbnb.com/help/article/654/what-is-occupancy-ta....

(Disclosure: I work at Airbnb)

Re:Nearly 80% of Japan’s Airbnbs removed in response to new ... by indigochill on Friday June 08, 2018 @01:20PM (#17267650)
In Reykjavik "too many tourists" is very much a problem. Or more specifically, the ratio of tourists to available housing.

Sure, there are solutions. There's a huge housing bubble right now (which will collapse whenever tourism dries up), for instance. Maybe if it keeps on this way some legislation will be passed to get it under control.

But both of those solutions are completely out of the hands of the people who actually can't afford to live in the city where they work.

Re:Nearly 80% of Japan’s Airbnbs removed in response to new ... by danudey on Friday June 08, 2018 @01:52PM (#17267959)
It's a huge problem in Vancouver, as well. There's a huge housing crisis here, and there's a lot of factors involved, but real estate speculation and short-term rentals are substantial contributors.

There was a woman at a city council meeting a few years ago who lived in a building with around 10 units, and she said six of them were on AirBnB. When ever she checked, their (small) pool always had people in it she'd never seen before, and never would again. People buy places to live in and make a life in, and then half the building is party people.

For what it's worth, this has always made us extremely wary of AirBnB, and we do a lot of research for cities we visit before we rent an AirBnB somewhere. In Montreal they're regulated, so we had no problem there. In Reykjavik, we rented from a woman who was staying at her mother's place to take care of her pets while she (her mother) was out of the country, so our stay wasn't depriving anyone of housing.

Other places we go, where AirBnB isn't as well regulated, we're very particular and tend to go for hotels (e.g. Ottawa, Seattle) because we're very aware of how bad these kinds of systems can be for people.

Re:Nearly 80% of Japan’s Airbnbs removed in response to new ... by shados on Friday June 08, 2018 @02:13PM (#17268222)
> People buy places to live in and make a life in, and then half the building is party people

This has to be repeated. There's no point in living without some level of quality of life. Having everyone trying to raise their family, do their school work, study, or just try to sleep, in what are essentially all becoming hotels, is just not something we should strive for.

One could even argue you're going to end up in a world where success in life is tied to wealth, not because of all the reasons commonly associated with it, but just because one group can actually sleep at night and one can't.

Re:Nearly 80% of Japan’s Airbnbs removed in response to new ... by SOLAR_FIELDS on Friday June 08, 2018 @05:49PM (#17270009)
Didn’t Vancouver recently pass a big tax on houses that were not someone’s primary residence? Is that helping?
Re:Nearly 80% of Japan’s Airbnbs removed in response to new ... by Tiktaalik on Friday June 08, 2018 @02:05PM (#17268122)
Yep. There are solutions, but it's tough due to demand being so elastic in comparison to housing.

In cities such as Reykjavik and Vancouver, they could tax Airbnb and divert the funding to create more housing, but housing construction is a physical process that takes time. Meanwhile in the short term rents are spiking.

Re:Nearly 80% of Japan’s Airbnbs removed in response to new ... by meheleventyone on Friday June 08, 2018 @06:00PM (#17270082)
In Reykjavik they’ve imposed limits on how long you can let on AirBnB before you need to be licensed and for shared apartment complexes you need permission of your neighbors to run an AirBnB. The downside is that with high demand still from tourists and seemingly poor enforcement it’s still an issue. Anecdotally as a resident of downtown Reykjavik I know that a bunch of places around my house that did the AirBnB thing have stopped and returned to longer lets. Presumably because hotel capacity is reaching more of an equilibrium. Which could be a concern as there is a lot of development still not completed. On the positive side that could open a lot of spare housing capacity for local residents but at an obvious cost as the current housing bubble bursts.
Re:Nearly 80% of Japan’s Airbnbs removed in response to new ... by Sangermaine on Friday June 08, 2018 @12:16PM (#17266889)
>I can't wrap my mind around people that think that 'too many tourists' or 'too many jobs' are a problem.

Step outside of theoretical economic thought experiments and try living in a formerly quiet neighborhood or building suddenly experiencing an influx of loud drunk littering assholes. Residential areas are desired as residential areas for a reason. I live in NYC and sure as hell don't want to live around Times Square. There are actual people living in these cities who want a decent quality of life where they live.

Echoing many others in the this thread, in a previous apartment in a residential area of Manhattan someone down the hall starting renting their unit to Airbnb visitors. It was a nightmare, but thankfully the landlord caught wind in a few weeks and kicked the person out.

Re:Nearly 80% of Japan’s Airbnbs removed in response to new ... by xapata on Friday June 08, 2018 @12:36PM (#17267119)
The correct way to handle those problems is to enforce noise and litter regulations. If your owner-neighbor is rowdy, it's no different than if their guests are rowdy.
Re:Nearly 80% of Japan’s Airbnbs removed in response to new ... by Xylakant on Friday June 08, 2018 @01:18PM (#17267605)
Neighbor stays and is subject to enforcement, AirBnB guest leaves and isn’t.
Re:Nearly 80% of Japan’s Airbnbs removed in response to new ... by danudey on Friday June 08, 2018 @01:53PM (#17267978)
AirBnB pays the fine, because they can afford to because they just made hundreds off the guests that littered and made a mess so they can chalk the fares up as the cost of doing business.
Re:Nearly 80% of Japan’s Airbnbs removed in response to new ... by xapata on Friday June 08, 2018 @02:26PM (#17268346)
I'd bet the fines can be appropriately large and punitive if that's the case.
Re:Nearly 80% of Japan’s Airbnbs removed in response to new ... by xapata on Friday June 08, 2018 @02:25PM (#17268338)
The owner or tenant is subject to enforcement and pays the consequences of their guests actions.
Re:Nearly 80% of Japan’s Airbnbs removed in response to new ... by Xylakant on Friday June 08, 2018 @02:28PM (#17268373)
Sure. Which would be what exactly? He can’t have a license revoked since he’s not having one.
Re:Nearly 80% of Japan’s Airbnbs removed in response to new ... by xapata on Friday June 08, 2018 @02:31PM (#17268395)
I meant "pay" in the literal sense of paying a fine.
Re:Nearly 80% of Japan’s Airbnbs removed in response to new ... by Xylakant on Friday June 08, 2018 @03:02PM (#17268667)
I don’t know about anything but Germany, but here you’d have to sue the owner yourself. Enjoy. Well now, since AirBnB is illegal in Berlin he might actually get fined.
Re:Nearly 80% of Japan’s Airbnbs removed in response to new ... by xapata on Friday June 08, 2018 @04:55PM (#17269611)
> sue the owner yourself

That's awful. In the US we have misdemeanor noise violations that carry a fine (or jail time if you refuse to pay).

Neighbors will call the police if your party is too rowdy. They'll show up looking for underage drinkers. Usually if you are nice to the cops and promise to be quiet (and everyone they see is 21+) they'll just warn you and not write a ticket.

Re:Nearly 80% of Japan’s Airbnbs removed in response to new ... by Xylakant on Friday June 08, 2018 @05:00PM (#17269640)
are certain that the fine could be levied against the owner instead of the actual perpetrator?
Re:Nearly 80% of Japan’s Airbnbs removed in response to new ... by Tushon on Friday June 08, 2018 @06:24PM (#17270229)
If the ordinances don't account for the scenario, they could (and probably should) be updated to indicate that repeat offenses at a rental could lead to a fine to the owner, so that they have a compelling interest to ensure their neighbors have a good experience
Re:Nearly 80% of Japan’s Airbnbs removed in response to new ... by jackvalentine on Saturday June 09, 2018 @06:09AM (#17272307)
I think you're on to something here! They could ensure their neighbours have a good experience by having something like a nightwatchman, and a front desk that people could go to for assistance!
Re:Nearly 80% of Japan’s Airbnbs removed in response to new ... by xapata on Sunday June 10, 2018 @04:40AM (#17277186)
That's why I enjoy living in an apartment or condo building. Home-owners associations are also useful for a cluster of single-family homes.
Re:Nearly 80% of Japan’s Airbnbs removed in response to new ... by Angostura on Friday June 08, 2018 @07:37PM (#17270611)
And the fact that you don't see your neighbours and that the schools suddenly have a reduction in intake?
Re:Nearly 80% of Japan’s Airbnbs removed in response to new ... by decebalus1 on Friday June 08, 2018 @01:21PM (#17267651)
> 'too many tourists' or 'too many jobs' are a problem

Don't convolute these two things in order to influence readers. One does not necessarily imply the other. Venice would not 'kill' for more tourists and most cities in the world would probably 'kill' for a certain amount of tourism but not for couch tourism which indirectly favors real estate speculators buying housing for short-term rent and driving the locals away.

Re:Nearly 80% of Japan’s Airbnbs removed in response to new ... by chatmasta on Friday June 08, 2018 @02:20PM (#17268285)
People don’t have a problem with “too many tourists” as they do with too many tourists taking up residential space. Tourism is great for the economy, but only as long as it doesn’t create negative externalities on other parts of the economy.

It’s not so much the rise in tourism that’s the problem as it is the rise in tourists staying in residentially zoned areas. Hosts are renting apartments and then illegally subleasing them for profit, artificially inflating rental prices without a corresponding increase in income. This is an especially large problem in developing countries, where due to geographical arbitrage, tourists can afford to pay way more for an apartment than a resident can.

Re:Nearly 80% of Japan’s Airbnbs removed in response to new ... by biztos on Friday June 08, 2018 @03:03PM (#17268676)
Assuming the tourists have more money than the locals and anyone can rent their apartment out to tourists instead of long-term to locals, you pretty quickly get to a point where "AirBnB-able" housing stock is taken off the actual housing market.

This is a problem that can't be solved by building more housing, because that housing is not going to be built in the historic city centers where the tourists want to stay. (Also, it takes a while to build more housing.)

Wouldn't the real market solution be to build more hotels?

Re:Nearly 80% of Japan’s Airbnbs removed in response to new ... by shados on Friday June 08, 2018 @02:10PM (#17268191)
Growing takes time. Things like a surge in tourism or commercial activities can happen nearly overnight.

In the city I live in (no NYC, but still one of the densest in the US and high demand), there's currently some big construction projects, and people are complaining its not big enough. Except its on a former landfill that could not support the larger structures. Let say we fix that...but the size of the project was also scaled according to capacity of the sewer infrastructure. Sure, we can fix that TOO, but then the people building the project have to wait a year, or two, or more, and they want money now.

You have to throttle things so that all the moving parts follow each other, to avoid making it hell for everyone.

Re:Nearly 80% of Japan’s Airbnbs removed in response to new ... by kazinator on Friday June 08, 2018 @01:47PM (#17267911)
> Those are 'problems' that most cities in the world would kill for

Yes, starting with killing affordability for their citizens.

> build more housing for local residents

But where? 50 km out of town, so they, too, can experience tourism on a daily basis.

Re:Nearly 80% of Japan’s Airbnbs removed in response to new ... by Fede_V on Friday June 08, 2018 @01:06PM (#17267462)
Let me flesh out a few very simple proposals: a complaint that a lot of city residents have is that tourists that arrive in a city don't spend a lot of money there because they pack their own lunches/avoid museums, etc.

How about charging a very high tax (in the form of a voucher) for hotel/AirBnB stays, but make that voucher spendable in local restaurants/museums? This would have the bonus that you'd also kill the local black market economy, as tourists would insist on being able to pay for goods using their voucher.

Re:Nearly 80% of Japan’s Airbnbs removed in response to new ... by gojomo on Friday June 08, 2018 @01:48PM (#17267919)
This is the 1st time I've heard the complaint that tourists don't spend money. Where is that a oft-expressed concern?

I suspect any voucher system like you propose would just create a secondary gray market in slightly-discounted vouchers.

Re:Nearly 80% of Japan’s Airbnbs removed in response to new ... by Symbiote on Friday June 08, 2018 @06:32PM (#17270269)
1. Anywhere where cruise ships are regular visitors. There are often free meals on the ship, and obviously no overnight stays in hotels.

2. Anywhere popular with young tourists (Amsterdam, Berlin etc). This might be limited to Europe, with a €20 flight (or bus) to the city, a bed in a cheap hostel, a visit to all the free things etc. This isn't new, but Couchsurfing and cheap transport have probably increased it.

Re:Nearly 80% of Japan’s Airbnbs removed in response to new ... by gojomo on Friday June 08, 2018 @07:06PM (#17270446)
Interesting! But, those types of tourists don't seem to overlap with AirBnB-type tourists, against whom the upthread complaints & proposals are directed.

So while I'm interested to hear of those cases, this "they don't spend" concern still seems out-of-place if directed against AirBnBers.

Re:Nearly 80% of Japan’s Airbnbs removed in response to new ... by newfoundglory on Saturday June 09, 2018 @05:48AM (#17272258)
Airbnb is definitely among the "cheap hostel" options available today. Get a 2 bedroom apartment, put a couple bunk beds in each room, voila.
Re:Nearly 80% of Japan’s Airbnbs removed in response to new ... by Symbiote on Sunday June 10, 2018 @05:36AM (#17277346)
I agree, especially as part of the appeal of Airbnb is the kitchen and that you can sneak extra people into the building very easily.
Re:Nearly 80% of Japan’s Airbnbs removed in response to new ... by nacho2sweet on Friday June 08, 2018 @01:58PM (#17268037)
Being a tourist and tourism is a luxury. Having affordable housing is a right.
Re:Nearly 80% of Japan’s Airbnbs removed in response to new ... by bmelton on Friday June 08, 2018 @02:12PM (#17268209)
Not that it's on-topic, but both are rights, and to be more specific, both are negatively asserted rights; which are (at least in America) rights to which nobody else has the obligation to assist you with, but to which nobody in the government may interfere.

Whether or not we regard one right as more important than the other (and to be fair, we absolutely should), that doesn't change that nobody else is obligated to assist you in pursuit of your rights.

Re:Nearly 80% of Japan’s Airbnbs removed in response to new ... by nacho2sweet on Friday June 08, 2018 @02:35PM (#17268429)
One side is going to come with pitchforks, increase racial tension, or vote in an extreme populist while the other is just not gonna come around. Also I am Canadian, it has been stated it is a human right here.
Re:Nearly 80% of Japan’s Airbnbs removed in response to new ... by bmelton on Friday June 08, 2018 @02:41PM (#17268501)
Negative assertion doesn't imply tacit vs. explicitly stated, it implies whether the government is obligated to provide you with it to ensure your right is served.

In America, for example, the right to legal counsel is positively asserted. "If you do not have a lawyer, we will provide one for you." Most other rights, including those explicitly enumerated in the constitution, are negatively asserted. We have the right to keep and bear arms, but it is encumbent on no one to aid me in that right, only the government may not interfere.

What does Canada (or your province) do to ensure that all housing prices are kept to affordability?

Re:Nearly 80% of Japan’s Airbnbs removed in response to new ... by samsonradu on Friday June 08, 2018 @02:55PM (#17268607)
Not trying to be cocky, but why is affordable housing a right in a capitalist society? Genuinely curious.
Re:Nearly 80% of Japan’s Airbnbs removed in response to new ... by Chaebixi on Friday June 08, 2018 @04:17PM (#17269328)
> Not trying to be cocky, but why is affordable housing a right in a capitalist society? Genuinely curious.

Because, in the West at least, society isn't capitalist uber alles.