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Re:Linus Torvalds on aliasing by Benjamin_Dobell on Friday June 08, 2018 @01:37AM (#17262864)
Linus has done some (okay, lots of) wonderful stuff. However, his attitude here is pretty extreme. Being incredibly rude, then proceeding to merge said pull request. If Linus is willing to merge the PR, then it can't be that bad. Surely there was a more tactful way to approach this, even for Linus.
Re:Linus Torvalds on aliasing by coldtea on Friday June 08, 2018 @03:39AM (#17263403)
>Linus has done some (okay, lots of) wonderful stuff. However, his attitude here is pretty extreme. Being incredibly rude, then proceeding to merge said pull request.

He already writes that he's OK with the code ("can live with it") -- he's against the reasoning that accompanies it.

Re:Linus Torvalds on aliasing by hvidgaard on Friday June 08, 2018 @05:06AM (#17263752)
Good code or not, if he doesn't agree with the reason to merge it, why merge it?
Re:Linus Torvalds on aliasing by Narann on Friday June 08, 2018 @05:38AM (#17263889)
Because the code is OK, but the _rationals_ in the commit message (union aliasing is bad) are not.

This is for history. If someone, later, say: "We should use union aliasing to fix this", someone would argue "No, we shouldn't because we already states _there_ that union aliasing is bad".

You can't consider a such amount of code like the kernel one without its commit history.

Here Linus explain why union aliasing is not "bad" per see, but considered "bad" because the C standard say so and he clearly explain standards are not holy book and compiler implementation is as important (something he always states).

Re:Linus Torvalds on aliasing by hvidgaard on Monday June 11, 2018 @05:25AM (#17282920)
But if he doesn't agree with the commit message, then asking for an altered PR with a different commit message is surely the way to go. Having to trawl the mailing list for maybe-happened-discussions seems like a stupid way to organize things. Maybe I just don't know how they structure the kernel development and documentation.
Re:Linus Torvalds on aliasing by omginternets on Friday June 08, 2018 @05:28AM (#17263849)
Presumably, there was a follow-up discussion.
Re:Linus Torvalds on aliasing by zwischenzug on Friday June 08, 2018 @03:38AM (#17263396)
He explicitly says the changes are fine. It's the argument that they should be merged 'because standards' that he's objecting to.
Re:Linus Torvalds on aliasing by iliaznk on Friday June 08, 2018 @02:01AM (#17262966)
Why should he NOT being rude? Has anyone ever answered him in the same way? Has anyone ever publicly explained him that while being a sociopathic nerd he still must comply to some basic rules of conduct like we all do. The guy is willingly putting on and supporting the public image he's got and, obviously, loving it. I know, that he's smart and what not, but why should it be an excuse for being an asshole? I just realised that he reminds me of Taleb.
Re:Linus Torvalds on aliasing by coldtea on Friday June 08, 2018 @03:45AM (#17263435)
>Why should he NOT being rude? Has anyone ever answered him in the same way?

Several, but no one that mattered enough with respect to Linux for his opinion to matter in return.

His OS, his rules. Others can always fork it if they have an issue with that.

It seems to have worked fine as a gatekeeping technique for the last 25+ years, even if it hurts some feelings. Linus goes for an in-the-trenches, rough camaraderie, approach, rather than a "professional soft spoken cubicle workers" approach.

Re:Linus Torvalds on aliasing by hfdgiutdryg on Friday June 08, 2018 @06:20AM (#17264070)
Linus goes for an in-the-trenches, rough camaraderie, approach

He's an outright toxic and abusive person. Characterizing a lack of toxic, abusive behavior as "professional soft spoken cubicle workers approach" is disingenuous.

Re:Linus Torvalds on aliasing by coldtea on Friday June 08, 2018 @05:52PM (#17270024)
Well, if he was "outright toxic", then he would have had negative effects on the kernel development. Which I don't see happening.

So what people mean with that is not that he actually has a toxic effect, but that they dislike his tone.

Re:Linus Torvalds on aliasing by JakeTyo on Friday June 08, 2018 @06:58PM (#17270411)
This is a malformed argument.

Having a 'toxic' personality does not mean he will produce bad code. Two completely different things.

Re:Linus Torvalds on aliasing by coldtea on Sunday June 10, 2018 @10:21AM (#17278230)
I didn't say that "toxic = he'll produce bad code".

I said that the claim of those saying he's language is toxic is that his language poisons the Linux kernel community development.

And yet, I counter-argue, I see it doing just fine, and going from strength to strength, over the last 25 years. If there's any toxicity effect, I wont see it affecting much, if anything.

I could accept that it might have led some people who could have otherwise contributed away. But I don't see this having any substantial effect on Linux's development.

Perhaps it's even beneficial (since the outcome and results from Linux's development team is better than from any other Unix-like OSS OS, with their supposedly not toxic leaders).

If that freedom of language is all it takes to keep Linus happy, and stewarding the project as well as he has done all these decades, then so be it...

Re:Linus Torvalds on aliasing by topspin on Friday June 08, 2018 @03:37AM (#17263384)
> Has anyone ever publicly explained him that while being a sociopathic nerd he still must comply to some basic rules of conduct like we all do[?]

Yes.

Back in 2014 several DebConf attendees publicly confronted Torvalds, quoting some of the outrageous things he's written to/at people and making him explain himself. It makes for some rather cringy moments and there is no evidence it had any meaningful impact on him. You may watch it all here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PmHRSeA2c8

Re:Linus Torvalds on aliasing by glaberficken on Friday June 08, 2018 @04:06AM (#17263511)
Taleb sees swearing as a form of signaling when you have acquired a certain "power" that gives you independence from others. He defends that by publicly swearing and being rude you are actually proving your competence.

See excerpt here: https://twitter.com/nntaleb/status/892370148476190720