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Re:The EU's Copyright Proposal Is Extremely Bad News for Eve... by IanCal on Thursday June 07, 2018 @05:24PM (#17260406)
> Under Article 13 of the proposal, sites that allow users to post text, sounds, code, still or moving images, or other copyrighted works for public consumption will have to filter all their users' submissions against a database of copyrighted works. Sites will have to pay to license the technology to match submissions to the database, and to identify near matches as well as exact ones. Sites will be required to have a process to allow rightsholders to update this list with more copyrighted works.

I don't understand where this level of detail has come from. Can someone explain?

Here's article 13 as far as I can tell

> Information society service providers that store and provide to the public access to large amounts of works or other subject-matter uploaded by their users shall, in cooperation with rightholders, take measures to ensure the functioning of agreements concluded with rightholders for the use of their works or other subject-matter or to prevent the availability on their services of works or other subject-matter identified by rightholders through the cooperation with the service providers. Those measures, such as the use of effective content recognition technologies, shall be appropriate and proportionate. The service providers shall provide rightholders with adequate information on the functioning and the deployment of the measures, as well as, when relevant, adequate reporting on the recognition and use of the works and other subject-matter.

> 2.Member States shall ensure that the service providers referred to in paragraph 1 put in place complaints and redress mechanisms that are available to users in case of disputes over the application of the measures referred to in paragraph 1.

> 3.Member States shall facilitate, where appropriate, the cooperation between the information society service providers and rightholders through stakeholder dialogues to define best practices, such as appropriate and proportionate content recognition technologies, taking into account, among others, the nature of the services, the availability of the technologies and their effectiveness in light of technological developments.

Edit -

> after Article 13 becomes law, any information hosted in the EU might disappear—and links to US mirrors might become infringing

How would links be infringing? Also where in A13 are they talked about at all?

Edit 2 -

I need to dig out a source but I'm near certain that there is an allowance for review, critique and satirisation of the news in the EU docs they're talking about.

> news sites may seek to withhold linking licenses from critics who want to quote from them in order to analyze, correct and critique their articles

Re:The EU's Copyright Proposal Is Extremely Bad News for Eve... by microcolonel on Thursday June 07, 2018 @05:32PM (#17260468)
Because fair use is the only way 80% of Wikipedia images exist. This article requires coordinating with rights holders even for uses that constitute fair use. Wikipedia contains a very large amount of content for which the rights holders are not known, no longer communicate publicly, or do not care about communicating with random strangers who may not even be authorized to make agreements on behalf of WMF.

The "in cooperation with rights holders" bit is pivotal.

Re:The EU's Copyright Proposal Is Extremely Bad News for Eve... by Doctor_Fegg on Thursday June 07, 2018 @05:53PM (#17260614)
Even before this proposal, Wikipedia would be flying very close to the wind on copyright were it hosted in the EU. "Fair use" is a US principle that isn't necessarily echoed in EU member states (the UK, for example, has a much more limited concept of "fair dealing").

It's notable that OpenStreetMap, which is hosted and governed in the UK, refuses to take data from Wikipedia because it believes it's tainted. (Specifically, Wikipedia says "you can get co-ordinates for articles by deriving them from Google Maps"[1], to which OSM says "nuh-uh".)

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Obtaining_geographic...

Re:The EU's Copyright Proposal Is Extremely Bad News for Eve... by beberlei on Thursday June 07, 2018 @06:29PM (#17260906)
But wikipedia is not for profit, it seems the law doesnt apply to it?
Re:The EU's Copyright Proposal Is Extremely Bad News for Eve... by sparkzilla on Thursday June 07, 2018 @06:44PM (#17261014)
The Wikimedia Foundation is rolling in cash.
Re:The EU's Copyright Proposal Is Extremely Bad News for Eve... by beberlei on Thursday June 07, 2018 @06:54PM (#17261091)
Fifa has billions of dollars, it is still not for profit.

Not for profit financially just means you cant give profits but have to reinvest it 100%

Re:The EU's Copyright Proposal Is Extremely Bad News for Eve... by rbehrends on Thursday June 07, 2018 @06:00PM (#17260680)
The current proposal is here: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=CONS... [1]; the text you have seems to be an older version.

I'll add that there is indeed a lot of wrong stuff in the EFF article. Don't get me wrong, articles 11 & 13 are indeed bad law (IMO), but promoting inaccurate information does not help.

For example, there is no mention of "noncommercial activity" in the entire text of Article 13 (non-commercial activity is only mentioned in one of the recitals for a different purpose). Article 13 applies to "online content sharing service providers". These are defined in Article 2:

"‘online content sharing service provider’ means a provider of an information society service whose main or one of the main purposes is to store and give the public access to a large amount of works or other subject-matter uploaded by its users which it organises and promotes for profit-making purposes.

"Providers of services such as non-for-profit online encyclopaedias, non-for-profit educational and scientific repositories, non-for-profit open source software developing platforms, as well as internet access service providers, online marketplaces and providers of cloud services which allow users, including businesses for their internal purposes, to upload content for their own use shall not be considered online content sharing service providers within the meaning of this Directive;"

Likewise, the following claim is misleading:

"Speaking of references: the problems with the new copyright proposal don't stop there. Under Article 11, each member state will get to create a new copyright in news. If it passes, in order to link to a news website, you will either have to do so in a way that satisfies the limitations and exceptions of all 28 laws, or you will have to get a license. This is fundamentally incompatible with any sort of wiki (obviously), much less Wikipedia."

Article 11 is about ancillary copyright; now, ancillary copyright is a bad idea, but the above is a misrepresentation. For starters, Article 11 (3) subjects ancillary copyright to the same limitations as regular copyright, in particular Articles 5 to 8 of Directive 2001/29/EC, including the right to quote such content (which in turn requires attribution).

What Article 11 does is (potentially) creating a copyright for small excerpts that might normally not be copyrightable and granting that right to press publishers in addition to the authors. This is a problem for news aggregators and search engines (which rely on producing content that's an aggregation of normally not copyrightable material) but not per se for Wikipedia (where pages consist of original material littered with references and quotes).

The biggest problem for news aggregators is that Article 11 (1) leaves the definition of "insubstantial" up to member states, which will probably lead to a "lowest common denominator" result, where the most restrictive interpretation by a member state effectively determines copyrightability for the purposes of ancillary copyright.

[1] And earlier revisions can be found here: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/procedure/EN/2016_280

Re:The EU's Copyright Proposal Is Extremely Bad News for Eve... by dannyobrien on Thursday June 07, 2018 @11:05PM (#17262279)
Happy to take corrections to the text (and I can fix that link), but both of the points you're criticising are still correct, and actually re-inforced by the points you make -- noncommercial and not-for-profit are interchangeable in this context: your quotation is from the President's negotiating text, and ours is from the rapporteur's proposed amendment text. Neither are final, or even at this point definitive.

The final text will be a compromise between these positions, but both attempt to exclude Github and Wikipedia with inaccurate and non-useful descriptions. And the key point remains that the limitations on Article 11 will be defined on a nation-by-nation basis, rather those specified in an EU-wide text. The two texts express the same ideas in slightly different terms.

If you'd like an alternative explanation of these issues, I'd recommend Julia Reda's breakdown of the same problems here:

https://juliareda.eu/2018/05/censorship-machines-link-tax-fi...

Re:The EU's Copyright Proposal Is Extremely Bad News for Eve... by vesinisa on Thursday June 07, 2018 @06:57PM (#17261112)
Remembering the EFF's recent EFAIL alarmist campaign against GPG, it's worrying how they seem to have recently gotten so many things wrong. It sadly destroys one's credibility in a debate when the opponent can paint you as someone simply misinformed.
Re:The EU's Copyright Proposal Is Extremely Bad News for Eve... by IanCal on Thursday June 07, 2018 @06:07PM (#17260732)
Thanks, that has a lot more detail and seems more familiar, I was just using the link in the article (on mobile so hard to dig into things much). Interesting overview too, that was my general impression.
Re:The EU's Copyright Proposal Is Extremely Bad News for Eve... by rbehrends on Thursday June 07, 2018 @06:17PM (#17260814)
Ugh, I hadn't even realized that EFF was linking to a two year old version. Little wonder that they got so many things wrong.

For a better overview on upcoming EU legislation, I recommend the legislative train schedule [1]. While the current page on the Directive on Copyright in the Digital Single Market [2] only has the penultimate version, it's still more up to date.

[1] http://www.europarl.europa.eu/legislative-train/

[2] http://www.europarl.europa.eu/legislative-train/theme-connec...