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Re:Billions in U.S. solar projects shelved after Trump panel... by lewis500 on Thursday June 07, 2018 @12:17PM (#17257224)
The number of jobs involved in this scam is trivial either way. The point of solar power manufacturing is not to make up jobs for people to do; it is to convert our energy to a source that doesn't kill people. If our planet is really at a slight risk of danger, and if solar panels somewhat ameliorate that, then it is stupid to prize a few thousand jobs. Last month the economy created a net 233k jobs---in one month. The economy is $19 trillion and we are waging a PR war over $1B vs $2.5B.

Federal reserve and fiscal policy are 1e9 times as important to job creation as this tariff. Would it be bad for the economy if someone invented a machine to make solar panels cheaply without any labor at all? No. That would be good because we could have lots of solar panels and save the planet.

Important to remember these tariffs were not conceived of as a job creation scheme. They were created to produce a windfall for investors who bought the bonds of bankrupt US solar companies. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-01-23/jpmorgan-...

I think that, for the White House, the tariffs have an added benefit of quashing an industry that more and more competes with coal. For reasons of graft, an obnoxious "heartland" brand and some weird fetishization, this administration is deeply obsessed with coal---one of the worst industries in the country to work for, which kills countless people via pollution.

Re:Billions in U.S. solar projects shelved after Trump panel... by blunte on Thursday June 07, 2018 @12:29PM (#17257383)
I think lost jobs are used as a big talking point because it resonates with the average person.

One of the primary arguments given by certain political figures as to why we need tariffs is that it will protect American jobs. So by showing that it costs more jobs than it protects, that can help the average person realize that tariffs do not protect jobs, at least not in all cases.

Re:Billions in U.S. solar projects shelved after Trump panel... by test6554 on Thursday June 07, 2018 @02:49PM (#17258918)
One day jobs will be a dirty word. If something creates jobs, then we don't want it. Something that creates work out of nowhere is a bit like nagging. Nobody wants that!
Re:Billions in U.S. solar projects shelved after Trump panel... by TaylorAlexander on Thursday June 07, 2018 @03:53PM (#17259608)
Here here! Let’s make it happen.

http://tlalexander.com/machine/

Re:Billions in U.S. solar projects shelved after Trump panel... by drak0n1c on Thursday June 07, 2018 @01:46PM (#17258267)
For perspective, the Obama Administration already imposed solar panel tariffs twice and funded Solyndra and US solar investors in general - who are all now in need of their bailout as you mention.

https://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/17/business/energy-environme...

http://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/261363-us-hits-...

Re:Billions in U.S. solar projects shelved after Trump panel... by tacogordito on Thursday June 07, 2018 @12:56PM (#17257692)
The irony about "saving the planet" here is that solar panels manufacturing plants in China have virtually no regulations, which allows them to skirt the normally heavy costs of toxic waste disposal. So in the process of making these planet saving devices, they've done all kinds of damage to the environment to begin with. There is a reason, after all, panels are cheaper to make in China.
Re:Billions in U.S. solar projects shelved after Trump panel... by ouid on Thursday June 07, 2018 @01:02PM (#17257765)
also slave labor
Re:Billions in U.S. solar projects shelved after Trump panel... by thinkcontext on Thursday June 07, 2018 @01:23PM (#17257990)
Small nit to pick.

> The economy is $14 trillion

The US economy is about $19T, it was $14T about 10 years ago.

https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.MKTP.CD?location...

Re:Billions in U.S. solar projects shelved after Trump panel... by mkirklions on Thursday June 07, 2018 @12:47PM (#17257600)
Does anyone smart think the Tariffs are good for the average person?

I thought thats just the talking heads for the plebs that watch daily news.

I have always understood this as crony capitalism until the economic collapses and they need to pull back these anti-capitalist measures.

Re:Billions in U.S. solar projects shelved after Trump panel... by Wohlf on Thursday June 07, 2018 @12:54PM (#17257676)
As with most things, it depends. If a country isn't trading in good faith tariffs can be used to correct that, just like fines are used to encourage companies to follow regulations within a country.
Re:Billions in U.S. solar projects shelved after Trump panel... by vkou on Thursday June 07, 2018 @01:02PM (#17257770)
Upon closer inspection, you may find that the definition 'good faith' tends to be incredibly politically self-serving.

Take aviation, for example. Do you think the United States exports airplanes built by 'trade in good faith'? Or is Boeing a company that is largely propped up by government largess? Or, if not, would you say that Boeing achieved market and technical dominance via government support in decades past? What about Silicon Valley? It only exists in California because of military contracts and very generous R&D funding for universities in the 70s and 80s.

Yet, similar behaviours on the part of other countries are considered 'not trading in good faith'.

Re:Billions in U.S. solar projects shelved after Trump panel... by tacogordito on Thursday June 07, 2018 @01:17PM (#17257932)
A more direct example of a good faith violation is China putting a 25% tariff on American imported automobiles or the EU having a 10% tariff on them. Free trade doesn't exist in its purest form.
Re:Billions in U.S. solar projects shelved after Trump panel... by vkou on Thursday June 07, 2018 @02:53PM (#17258965)
They are just trying to bootstrap their auto sector. China's a couple of decades late in development, so they need to do these kinds of things.

The United States has done the same thing, when it was behind in industrialization to the United Kingdom. Heavy tariffs on foreign goods, in order to prop up its own domestic sector.

Once they get their auto industry together, to the same level of quality as US manufacturers, they won't need that tariff.

Re:Billions in U.S. solar projects shelved after Trump panel... by mkirklions on Thursday June 07, 2018 @02:07PM (#17258505)
Btw I believe that drove the demand for luxury american cars up.
Re:Billions in U.S. solar projects shelved after Trump panel... by mkirklions on Thursday June 07, 2018 @01:14PM (#17257911)
I agree that its a negotiating piece. It might be bad economics, but maybe we need a bit of pain for everyone to play nice.