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Re:The New Yorker has formed a union by Spooky23 on Wednesday June 06, 2018 @01:29PM (#17249140)
Usually there is a salary scale, and usually that scale is consistent and favors tenure. People start at a consistent level -- "Bob" doesn't start as a "Developer 2" making $80k, while "Sally" starts as a "Developer 2" at $50k.

The biggest "upside" is that there is usually more stability in terms of work rules, benefits and compensation, and when there are changes, you know about them. There are defined work rules, disciplinary procedures, etc. Your health insurance doesn't randomly change every year, etc.

The union itself is at least a nominally democratic institution. The downsides are that shitty employees can work the system. And just like how you have bad IT, HR or other teams, some unions suck. Dealing with a shitty union is difficult.

In general, if there are a bunch of people around you doing the same things, the company is making money, and you'd like long tenure, a union probably is a net benefit. If you work for a mega-org or .gov, it's essential. If you're in a high-growth business, or a profession where you expect to bounce from employer to employer, it's not a good value.

Everyone on HN is a 10x employee making a $500k/year, so it's not a good value in that situation either. ;)

Re:The New Yorker has formed a union by Kalium on Wednesday June 06, 2018 @02:08PM (#17249497)
Also, sometimes your union might decide to tank your employer to strengthen their negotiating position with another employer. A shitty union can go really shitty.

This isn't a hypothetical worst-case scenario. I mean, it is a worst-case, but it did actually happen to Hostess.

Re:The New Yorker has formed a union by Avshalom on Wednesday June 06, 2018 @03:45PM (#17250422)
Sort of.

The union and Hostess had already agreed to a round of salary cuts and decreased benefits. When the management still "couldn't" make it work that they went nuclear.

Re:The New Yorker has formed a union by Kalium on Wednesday June 06, 2018 @03:50PM (#17250467)
If memory serves, there were two unions Hostess was negotiating with. One represented most of Hostess' workers and was negotiating in good faith. The other represented a small percentage of Hostess' workers, and was willing to sacrifice their members at Hostess to gain an advantage in their negotiations with different companies who had more employers.

Arguably, this is a reason unions shouldn't get too big. It creates scenarios where some workers get their interests sacrificed, precisely the thing unions exist to forestall.

Re:The New Yorker has formed a union by Spooky23 on Wednesday June 06, 2018 @04:48PM (#17250976)
That may well be true, but doesn’t really make any point.

Oracle is an awful software company. Does that mean that we should use paper ledgers for corporate accounting?

Re:The New Yorker has formed a union by Kalium on Wednesday June 06, 2018 @05:30PM (#17251281)
No, but it might mean you should be careful about proprietary databases.

Which is to say I believe there is a point to be made in there about what can and has happened. And what there is to be cautious of.

Re:The New Yorker has formed a union by Spooky23 on Wednesday June 06, 2018 @09:49PM (#17252613)
The point there is that you don’t really have much of a choice once you’re a business of a certain size, you pretty much do Oracle Financials or SAP!
Re:The New Yorker has formed a union by mkirklions on Wednesday June 06, 2018 @02:52PM (#17249931)
> If you work for a mega-org or .gov, it's essential.

Government jobs?

People dont get fired from those anyway.

You have a monopoly service and monopoly workforce. This is recipe for disaster.

At least a monopoly workforce in the private sector can bleed a company dry and force it out of business.

The government? Well they raise taxes + increase debt... Or the service just sucks.

Re:The New Yorker has formed a union by Spooky23 on Wednesday June 06, 2018 @03:05PM (#17250061)
Re:The New Yorker has formed a union by dsfyu404ed on Wednesday June 06, 2018 @02:48PM (#17249904)
>or .gov, it's essential

No. That is wrong. All of government is overhead, it's like an operating system that way. Public employees should not be collectively bargain to extract more money from taxpayers. If compensation is so bad in the gov't then the employees can organize to get someone else voted in to turn things around. Furthermore, because so much of what happens in government is subject to public scrutiny (as it should be, it's our money) there's much less space for the government to poorly compensate its employees or treat them like crap.

Edit: did people forget what a great contribution to society police unions have made?