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Re:A 64-year-old put his life savings in his carry-on, and U... by arcticbull on Friday June 01, 2018 @08:16PM (#17211689)
You can absolutely get punished for what you say in the US -- freedom of speech was long ago recognized as anything but absolute. You can't yell fire in a crowded theater. Obscenity (as defined in Miller v. California) is not protected by the constitution. You can't lie under oath. You can't deliberately tell lies about people (Libel). The First Amendment doesn’t protect the speech of people plotting to overthrow the government (Dennis v. United States). House Bill 347 authorized Secret Service agents to arrest anyone protesting in the president’s or vice president’s proximity.

The only difference is they've chosen to draw the line somewhere just offset from what you're used to. There's still a line in these here United States. And it's really not that different, is it?

Re:A 64-year-old put his life savings in his carry-on, and U... by opo on Friday June 01, 2018 @08:41PM (#17211825)
>...You can't yell fire in a crowded theater.

Wrong.

https://www.popehat.com/2012/09/19/three-generations-of-a-ha...

>...The only difference is they've chosen to draw the line somewhere just offset from what you're used to. There's still a line in these here United States.

It looks like the US probably has the strongest free speech protections of any country in the world - that isn't a bad thing.

Re:A 64-year-old put his life savings in his carry-on, and U... by jakelazaroff on Friday June 01, 2018 @08:57PM (#17211895)
…right. That article bemoans the use of "shouting fire in a crowded theater" as a rhetorical device, but doesn't actually discuss the legality of such speech.

(IANAL, but there exists such a thing as depraved indifference murder: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depraved-heart_murder)

Re:A 64-year-old put his life savings in his carry-on, and U... by opo on Saturday June 02, 2018 @01:22AM (#17212877)
>...but doesn't actually discuss the legality of such speech.

Well, the article discusses the origin of the idea that "shouting fire in a crowded theater" is illegal. It also points out that Brandenburg v. Ohio is the actual relevant decision.

For more context on the Brandenberg decision:

>...Charles Brandenburg, a Ku Klux Klan leader, had spoken to group members at a televised Ohio rally. He’d used inflammatory language and racial slurs. He’d called for "revengeance," which Ohio prosecutors interpreted as a call to violence. This meant, said the prosecutors, that Charles Brandenburg had broken the law.

>...Advocacy, even when it encourages law-breaking, helps the marketplace of ideas, ruled the Court. Had Brandenburg instructed followers to commit a specific crime, he’d have committed a number of offenses himself. But the First Amendment protects speech that merely advocates general, indefinite illegal action.

>With that ruling, the Court overturned the Schenck decision that had introduced "shouting fire in a crowded theater." No longer was "clear and present danger" a sufficient standard for criminalizing speech. To break the law, speech now had to incite "imminent lawless action."

>So if a court can prove that you incite imminent lawlessness by falsely shouting "fire" in a crowded theater, it can convict you. If you incite an unlawful riot, your speech is "brigaded" with illegal action, and you will have broken the law. But merely falsely shouting "fire" does not break the law, even if it risks others’ safety.

http://civil-liberties.yoexpert.com/civil-liberties-general/...

Re:A 64-year-old put his life savings in his carry-on, and U... by jakelazaroff on Saturday June 02, 2018 @11:01AM (#17214861)
The death of a human being can certainly be regarded as unlawful. See Michelle Carter's conviction for encouraging Conrad Roy to commit suicide [1] despite the fact that Massachusetts has no law against suicide itself.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Conrad_Roy

Re:A 64-year-old put his life savings in his carry-on, and U... by jcranmer on Friday June 01, 2018 @10:38PM (#17212323)
The ruling standard is Brandenburg v. Ohio, which draws the line at incitement to "imminent lawless action." Which is to say, you have to be rallying people to start a riot right now. Doing something that is merely provocative, such as marching a neo-Nazi parade through a neighborhood of Holocaust survivors, is protected First Amendment speech.

Literally shouting fire in a crowded theater in an attempt to cause a panic and perhaps kill people, would not be protected speech, but pretty much anything less would be protected speech.

Re:A 64-year-old put his life savings in his carry-on, and U... by jakelazaroff on Saturday June 02, 2018 @12:05AM (#17212608)
No contest here! The only thing my reply addresses is the parent's assertion that the specific example of shouting fire in a crowded theater is protected speech.
Re:A 64-year-old put his life savings in his carry-on, and U... by gowld on Friday June 01, 2018 @08:43PM (#17211838)
Those free speech protections have been implicated in an ongoing series of terrorist murders, which is a bad thing.

https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2014/04/17/splc-report-n...

> Almost 100 people were murdered over the last five years by registered users of Stormfront, the largest racist Web forum in the world, according to a report released today by the Southern Poverty Law Center.

Re:A 64-year-old put his life savings in his carry-on, and U... by ra1n85 on Friday June 01, 2018 @09:02PM (#17211937)
>Those free speech protections have been implicated in an ongoing series of terrorist murders, which is a bad thing.

How did free speech carry out terrorist murders?

Re:A 64-year-old put his life savings in his carry-on, and U... by jimbokun on Saturday June 02, 2018 @12:33AM (#17212724)
Well now that we Americans can murder people directly with words, we can merge the first and second amendments.
Re:A 64-year-old put his life savings in his carry-on, and U... by jstarfish on Friday June 01, 2018 @08:31PM (#17211768)
Not to mention the myriad of other nonsense charges they'll get you with ("loitering", "soliciting", etc) if they can't find anything specifically against your speech.

You can shout grammatically correct, sensible and lawful speech from the public street corner ("eat right! exercise! wash behind your ears!"), but if a cop simply tells you to move along and you refuse, you're still looking at being jailed.

Re:A 64-year-old put his life savings in his carry-on, and U... by caf on Friday June 01, 2018 @09:56PM (#17212185)
Don't forget "born secret" Restricted Data.