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Re:Will Kubernetes Collapse Under the Weight of Its Complexity? by ShroudedNight on Tuesday May 29, 2018 @01:58AM (#17176813)
Being able to go all the way down the software stack makes it much, much easier to keep said stack honest. Debugging is often a desperate attempt at establishing ground truth. Without a low-level understanding, you're always a the mercy of your tools, and how they have decided to curate the information they're feeding you. Even the most well-meaning curation can be so frustratingly deceiving as to incite violence, and god help you if something you're interacting with has a smug sense of knowing what's best for you.

There have been a number of cases where I've had to rely on the ability to debug binaries directly at -O3, or to resort to Wireshark to get the dose of reality needed to challenge my [our] flawed mental model. If I hadn't been able to do those things, I'd probably still be there, pondering those defects, if not in body [due to declaring outright failure], at least in spirit.

Re:Will Kubernetes Collapse Under the Weight of Its Complexity? by pulsarpietro on Tuesday May 29, 2018 @04:39AM (#17177405)
> you're always a the mercy of your tools

More than tools they are products nowadays :-(

Re:Will Kubernetes Collapse Under the Weight of Its Complexity? by erikb on Tuesday May 29, 2018 @04:52AM (#17177478)
You can make sense of all the back and forth in k8s networking? That needs more than package capturing I suppose. How do you translate a million packages into something useful?
Re:Will Kubernetes Collapse Under the Weight of Its Complexity? by kazen44 on Tuesday May 29, 2018 @05:04AM (#17177533)
most of k8s networking is actually not part of k8s? They don't really have a integrated overlay network except for kube-proxy. (which is lackluster).

If you are running k8s, you should run a proper overlay network first.

Re:Will Kubernetes Collapse Under the Weight of Its Complexity? by erikb on Tuesday May 29, 2018 @12:16PM (#17180488)
"Running k8s" means also running a CNI of course, otherwise k8s doesn't work.