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Re:Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out ... by mtgx on Thursday May 24, 2018 @03:20PM (#17147317)
> "I felt invaded," she said. "A total privacy invasion. Immediately I said, 'I'm never plugging that device in again, because I can't trust it.'"

Let this lady's reaction be a lesson to all of those who say "people don't care about privacy." She wired her home with Alexa devices, and yet when she found out how her privacy could practically be invaded through such devices, she seems like couldn't get rid of them fast enough.

People care deeply about their privacy. They just don't understand the true implications of even a device that's supposed to "listen to you" and the possibilities of what someone else could do to their internet-connected devices.

This is why governments must intervene with laws such as GDPR or even much stronger ones in the future to protect people's privacy, because the companies themselves have no incentive to "self-regulate" other than a negligible amount.

The only problem is some governments will not intervene unless enough people go through similar situations such as this lady. In the US even that may not help much because the vast majority of politicians care most about continuing to receive (however modest) donations (also called bribe money elsewhere) from the industry.

Re:Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out ... by rohit89 on Thursday May 24, 2018 @06:01PM (#17148865)
People care about privacy to the extent that they don't want people in their social circle knowing stuff. They don't care so much about a faceless organization taking it.
Re:Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out ... by calcifer on Thursday May 24, 2018 @04:24PM (#17148053)
> People care deeply about their privacy.

No, they don't. Do you really think if, before she made this purchase, someone explained to her all the things that could theoratically go wrong with this device, she would have chosen not to buy it?

She only cares now and acts like she doesn't share quite a bit of the blame because it actually affected her. I think it is highly likely she'll just switch to an Apple or Google equivalent instead of noticing the larger problem with these devices.

Re:Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out ... by grumdan on Thursday May 24, 2018 @04:47PM (#17148270)
> No, they don't. Do you really think if, before she made this purchase, someone explained to her all the things that could theoratically go wrong with this device, she would have chosen not buy it?

I think this would only indicate that she might care, but thought theoretical worst case scenarios are not sufficient evidence for an actual, non-negligible risk to her privacy. If they had told her that exactly this would definitely happen, I think she would not have bought the device.

I think one problem of explaining privacy issues to non-techies is justifying why theoretical problems often pose a real threat without sounding (to them) like a conspiracy theory nutcase.

Re:Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out ... by ridgeguy on Thursday May 24, 2018 @08:30PM (#17149712)
This indicates that people may care deeply about their privacy when they've experienced a breach thereof. It is consistent with people not caring about their privacy because they can't imagine such a breach or project how they would feel if it did happen to them. It does not support their not caring about it.

The loss of privacy spreading throughout civilization is recent and rapid. It's not surprising that somebody might think about it differently after they've experienced it. We haven't had time to come to terms with what out technology can do.

Re:Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out ... by lopmotr on Thursday May 24, 2018 @05:14PM (#17148485)
You're ignoring risk. This is one failure out of millions(?) of customers. It's like someone being seriously injured in a bicycle crash and deciding not to cycle to work anymore. Or having their house burgled and moving out of the neighborhood. People get hurt when rare bad things happen to them and it scares them off.
Re:Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out ... by grkvlt on Saturday May 26, 2018 @06:21AM (#17161267)
It turns out that people react irrationally when rare bad things happen to them; that is, they over-react, generally...
Re:Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out ... by nighthawk1 on Thursday May 24, 2018 @05:08PM (#17148428)
I’m not sure sometimes if people are oblivious to consequences or they are aware of them and brush them aside until said consequences occur.
Re:Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out ... by BeetleB on Thursday May 24, 2018 @04:40PM (#17148204)
Completely agree with you. I've seen this over and over and over with people I know. They always want something badly enough that they'll find any excuse to dismiss any downsides to it.

"Amazon/Google/Apple/Facebook/X have very smart people who will not allow this to happen."

"I have nothing to hide."

"People who want to listen to our boring conversations are losers. Let them waste their time doing so."

And the list goes on. I'm not making any of this up.

And then when it (occasionally) happens to them, there is a whole lot of dramatic outrage and someone else must be blamed. (Although in this case, I agree someone else is to blame - but I've seen this play out when people explicitly agree in the contract to consequences, and are warned quite clearly by a human about the implications of the contract).

Re:Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out ... by lopmotr on Thursday May 24, 2018 @05:58PM (#17148843)
That's not unreasonable. Lots of good things come with risk and when they go wrong we blame someone. Your house burns down and you blame the arsonist, not yourself for having a house made from fuel! Car crashes kill people and we blame the drunk driver not the victim innocently using the road which is known to be one of the most dangerous places to be.
Re:Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out ... by reaperducer on Thursday May 24, 2018 @06:23PM (#17149029)
"I have nothing to hide."

Response: "Cool. What's your e-mail password?"

Re:Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out ... by pbhjpbhj on Friday May 25, 2018 @07:28AM (#17152504)
Because emails only have info about the recipient; and email isn't used for access to anything of worth, like bank accounts. /s
Re:Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out ... by grkvlt on Saturday May 26, 2018 @06:24AM (#17161275)
No, response: "Cool, why don't you send all the e-mails you've received this year to the police, then?"
Re:Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out ... by reaperducer on Thursday May 24, 2018 @06:11PM (#17148935)
> No, they don't. Do you really think if, before she made this purchase, someone explained to her all the things that could theoratically go wrong with this device, she would have chosen not to buy it?

Yes. Do you think if everyone knew what was going to happen with the Facebook scandal before it happened they would have signed up for Facebook? That's why it's called a "scandal."

Re:Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out ... by BeetleB on Thursday May 24, 2018 @06:13PM (#17148955)
>Do you think if everyone knew what was going to happen with the Facebook scandal before it happened they would have signed up for Facebook? That's why it's called a "scandal."

Yes.

I also noticed how they haven't left once the scandal came to light.

Re:Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out ... by reaperducer on Thursday May 24, 2018 @06:24PM (#17149034)
>I also noticed how they haven't left once the scandal came to light.

You and I must read different news sources.

From what I've read, Facebook is down over a billion visits in the last quarter.

Re:Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out ... by pbhjpbhj on Friday May 25, 2018 @07:20AM (#17152460)
Half of Facebook's users visited one less time in a 3 month period? I think they'll survive.

I've visited less in the last month, but because they've changed the algo on my feed and it's not as interesting ... though that could be a network effect, but I'm getting quite different stuff.

Re:Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out ... by ubi_now on Thursday May 24, 2018 @04:15PM (#17147927)
> This is why governments must intervene with laws such as GDPR or even much stronger ones in the future to protect people's privacy, because the companies themselves have no incentive to "self-regulate" other than a negligible amount.

Market failure does not imply government solution. You're going to need a much stronger argument than "companies aren't doing a good enough job."

Amazon invaded her privacy, she realized it, and now she doesn't use the product. If you want others to do the same, start raising awareness yourself instead of enacting nanny state laws with other people's money.

Re:Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out ... by Proziam on Thursday May 24, 2018 @04:56PM (#17148341)
I fail to see how market failures are not a reasonable point to look at whether governmental solutions are applicable.

Case and point - 2008 Market Crash, everyone agrees the dishonest practices that led to the crash should have been made absolutely illegal (in the cases where they already weren't)

In this case, we have MANY significant and potentially extraordinarily damaging failures in the markets to effectively protect people's privacy occurring fairly regularly. GDPR is not the ideal solution my any metric, but that's a failure of government to create effective legislation - not a lack of need for effective rules.