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Re:US Births Dip to 30-yr Low; Fertility Rate Sinks Further ... by coldtea on Thursday May 17, 2018 @03:43PM (#17094808)
>Student loans, housing costs, job prospects, healthcare, childcare. People are making a rational decision to avoid children they can’t afford.

Well, people in the US made way more children when they made very few money, and lived 10 together in tiny houses and apartments.

And they still do in the developing world.

So it can't be just costs.

Re:US Births Dip to 30-yr Low; Fertility Rate Sinks Further ... by dagw on Thursday May 17, 2018 @03:57PM (#17094975)
So it can't be just costs.

Our expected spending on children has also grown dramatically. For example back then there was an expectation that someone would always stay home an look after the kids, now we expect them to go to day care. Back then 4 kids sharing a room their entire childhood was normal, now each kid is expected to get their own room. Back then kids where expected to entertain themselves, now we expect them to attend all sorts of after school activities. Back then they where expected to either go straight to work after high school or pay their own way through college either by working or scholarships, now the parents are expected to help pay for college, and so on.

Basically it's not that having kids per se is more expensive, it's that providing kids with the quality of life we've come to be expected to provide them with is expensive.

Re:US Births Dip to 30-yr Low; Fertility Rate Sinks Further ... by magduf on Thursday May 17, 2018 @05:03PM (#17095777)
The other thing everyone is forgetting is how much TIME kids require; it's not just about the money. As someone else in this thread said, poor people get their entertainment from their families and communities, whereas richer people have other ways to entertain themselves (travel, etc.). Raising kids is a huge time-sink; you never get any time to yourself, you never get to do anything that isn't kid-friendly, etc. It's a huge lifestyle change if you're used to being able to take weekend trips, go to fancy restaurants, go on international travel, etc.
Re:US Births Dip to 30-yr Low; Fertility Rate Sinks Further ... by freyir on Thursday May 17, 2018 @03:52PM (#17094915)
Costs in terms of time and money.

In the past, kids could work on the farm or in a factory and generate money, now you have to send them to daycare and buy them toys and they cost money.

Previously, more people would jump straight out of high school into blue collar jobs and raising families. Now, men and women are delaying kids to focus on college and building a career.

And mothers would more often stay home to raise kids. Now both parents are working more, and there's less time to spend raising children.

Re:US Births Dip to 30-yr Low; Fertility Rate Sinks Further ... by j_gu on Thursday May 17, 2018 @03:59PM (#17095000)
In the past, kids were essentially indentured servants/slaves in other words.
Re:US Births Dip to 30-yr Low; Fertility Rate Sinks Further ... by magduf on Thursday May 17, 2018 @05:03PM (#17095787)
Yes, and don't forget, in the past, women were also essentially indentured servants/slaves.
Re:US Births Dip to 30-yr Low; Fertility Rate Sinks Further ... by coldtea on Friday May 18, 2018 @03:24AM (#17099341)
In the past kids, after 10 or so, where considered short adults and treated as such.
Re:US Births Dip to 30-yr Low; Fertility Rate Sinks Further ... by pixl97 on Thursday May 17, 2018 @04:28PM (#17095352)
My parents: "Our kids still are indentured servants"
Re:US Births Dip to 30-yr Low; Fertility Rate Sinks Further ... by jdavis703 on Thursday May 17, 2018 @03:49PM (#17094873)
Unfortunately many areas have outlawed living 10 together in tiny houses and apartments.

Boarding houses have become illegal, and their modern equivalent of micro apartments are in danger of becoming illegal [0].

To add a personal story, when I was college we had about 20-30 people living in a medium sized single family home. We were mostly students, but there were a couple of kids, and a grandmother too. Our neighbors hated us, and constantly tried to report us for overcrowding. However in our locality there was no cap on the number of residents, so long as conditions are sanitary and safe. But we'd have the zoning person come through frequently to ensure we didn't have things like too many ovens or broken bathrooms.

0: http://www.sightline.org/2016/09/06/how-seattle-killed-micro...

Re:US Births Dip to 30-yr Low; Fertility Rate Sinks Further ... by koolba on Thursday May 17, 2018 @04:34PM (#17095405)
> To add a personal story, when I was college we had about 20-30 people living in a medium sized single family home.

How many bed rooms and how did the actual sleeping work?

A "standard" 3-bedroom house would have 7-8 people in it per room (assuming you use the family room as a bedroom too) which means either bunk beds or wall to wall sleeping bags? Also 30 people sharing two bathrooms doesn't sound fun.

Re:US Births Dip to 30-yr Low; Fertility Rate Sinks Further ... by jdavis703 on Friday May 18, 2018 @10:29AM (#17101730)
The house was sectioned off in to 3 areas. Mine had 6-7 people sharing 6 bedrooms and 1 bathroom. I'm not sure of the layouts in the other sections of the house. But the landlord had definitely divided the home in to as many small rooms as possible.
Re:US Births Dip to 30-yr Low; Fertility Rate Sinks Further ... by coldtea on Friday May 18, 2018 @03:23AM (#17099337)
>Also 30 people sharing two bathrooms doesn't sound fun.

First world problems...

Re:US Births Dip to 30-yr Low; Fertility Rate Sinks Further ... by vkou on Thursday May 17, 2018 @03:45PM (#17094834)
They also did so in an environment where childcare was free (Because grandma was doing it for you.)

Most people don't live with grandma anymore, and the government will happily take your children away if you don't keep every second of their lives supervised by an adult, prior to the age of 13.

Re:US Births Dip to 30-yr Low; Fertility Rate Sinks Further ... by Karishma1234 on Thursday May 17, 2018 @03:48PM (#17094866)
There are more grandmas alive than ever in past. What is stopping you from doing it now ? Go live with grandma.
Re:US Births Dip to 30-yr Low; Fertility Rate Sinks Further ... by dagw on Thursday May 17, 2018 @03:59PM (#17094999)
Grandma is either still working or far too busy living her own healthy and active life to want to be an unpaid full time nanny.
Re:US Births Dip to 30-yr Low; Fertility Rate Sinks Further ... by gowld on Thursday May 17, 2018 @04:53PM (#17095628)
Why would she be unpaid, and why isn't family part of an active life, and why is grandma so much wealthier than her children?
Re:US Births Dip to 30-yr Low; Fertility Rate Sinks Further ... by kaitai on Thursday May 17, 2018 @05:39PM (#17096180)
Because Grandma had her mom watch her kids so didn't spend $14,400/year on infant care, and her mom had time because she got fired from her school teacher job the day she got married!

Today's mom, on the other hand, moved to San Francisco to get her data scientist/devops/whatever job (there were not any in her area of northern Minnesota and she kind of liked CA after going to Stanford) and Grandma doesn't want to move to CA because it's going to fall into the ocean, you know.

Re:US Births Dip to 30-yr Low; Fertility Rate Sinks Further ... by vkou on Thursday May 17, 2018 @07:18PM (#17097037)
Also because Grandma can't afford to live in CA on her social security pension.
Re:US Births Dip to 30-yr Low; Fertility Rate Sinks Further ... by Karishma1234 on Monday May 21, 2018 @10:07AM (#17118448)
Because california is fighting the climate change by taxing her to death that would otherwise affect all those never will be born babies.
Re:US Births Dip to 30-yr Low; Fertility Rate Sinks Further ... by Karishma1234 on Friday May 18, 2018 @12:36AM (#17098729)
Just wondering why can't people hire some illegal immigrant girl to watch babies ? It is like one of the simplest job ever.
Re:US Births Dip to 30-yr Low; Fertility Rate Sinks Further ... by nshelly on Friday May 18, 2018 @03:59PM (#17104520)
Caring for an infant is hard, high-skilled work and something you want to get right. "Shaken baby" is a real thing and can lead to development disorders. A hands-on attentive caretaker has a very good ROI -- healthier, more communicative toddler and child. "You get what you pay for [or do yourself]" is a real thing for the first few years of a child's life, and having family nearby, which we fortunately did, was invaluable.
Re:US Births Dip to 30-yr Low; Fertility Rate Sinks Further ... by pixl97 on Thursday May 17, 2018 @04:30PM (#17095360)
How many grandma's live in retirement homes?

Back then: Have kid when 18-24, Grandma is 36-42.

Now: Have kid when 35, Grandma is 70.

Re:US Births Dip to 30-yr Low; Fertility Rate Sinks Further ... by duderific on Thursday May 17, 2018 @08:16PM (#17097512)
Of course, 70 now is like 50 back in the day. My kid's grammy is 76 and she still takes care of business.