Researchers say a breathalyzer has flaws, casting doubt on countless convictions

Re:Researchers say a breathalyzer has flaws, casting doubt o... by thaumaturgy on Thursday May 10, 2018 @12:21PM (#17040282)

Hey, dial it back a notch, okay?

My "admission" was that I could not find any data to support your claim that ".07 isn't likely to kill anyone either".

The NHTSA's statement on why .08 was chosen: https://one.nhtsa.gov/people/injury/research/pub/alcohol-law...

A TIME article considering whether .08 is too high: http://content.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2025301,0...

The National Academy of Sciences recently recommended lowering the limit to .05: http://www8.nationalacademies.org/onpinews/newsitem.aspx?Rec... (there are a few links to pdfs at the bottom with more details)

My original comment was a plea for people to reconsider driving while "just barely legal", because it wasn't worth the risks. You want to know if there is actually any risk. Well, here you go.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Researchers say a breathalyzer has flaws, casting doubt o... by learc83 on Thursday May 10, 2018 @12:43PM (#17040519)

So if a state has a limit of .05, are you OK with convicting people who blow a .04?

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Researchers say a breathalyzer has flaws, casting doubt o... by thaumaturgy on Thursday May 10, 2018 @01:09PM (#17040779)

Not so much.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Researchers say a breathalyzer has flaws, casting doubt o... by learc83 on Thursday May 10, 2018 @03:08PM (#17042003)

So the real problem here is that you want a lower limit. The margin of error has the effect of occasionally lowering that limit, so you're OK with it. You're OK with police incorrectly applying the law as long as the outcome is something that you agree with.

There are a few problems with that.

1. You're not always going to agree with the way the police incorrectly apply the law and police culture and procedure is harder to change than statutory limits.

2. The margin of error works both ways. It lets some people who are over a .08 go free. And it punishes some people who are below a .08.

We should strive to remove arbitrariness from our justice system. It's not always possible but we should try for it anyway.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Researchers say a breathalyzer has flaws, casting doubt o... by thaumaturgy on Thursday May 10, 2018 @04:21PM (#17042597)

sigh

Yes, I think the limit should be lower.

No, there's not a chance in hell I personally will be able to do anything about that.

Yes, I understand the value of clear, fair, equal treatment under law.

Yes, I get that police abuse is a problem in many areas.

No, I can't be moved to care about this particular issue, because the people affected are too close to the legal limit to not be a danger to others.

I really regret my original comment on this topic, what was supposed to be a straightforward plea to not drive "buzzed", which would bring with it the added benefit of not finding yourself in a situation where a device with a small margin of error might get you into legal trouble.

I had no reason to expect that it would ignite a flamefest.

I kind of wish ~dang or somebody would just nuke my comment and everything under it, since there's nothing of value here.

Anyway, this is my last on the subject, since it's just adding to the noise.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Researchers say a breathalyzer has flaws, casting doubt o... by learc83 on Thursday May 10, 2018 @09:44PM (#17044421)

>Yes, I understand the value of clear, fair, equal treatment under law.

>No, I can't be moved to care about this particular issue, because the people affected are too close to the legal limit to not be a danger to others.

That's the problem. You don't really understand the value of equal treatment under the law. If you only care about equal treatment when you personally think the person deserves it, you don't really care about it.

[ Parent | on HN ]