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Re:Tesla Plunges After a Conference Call by gfody on Thursday May 03, 2018 @03:07PM (#16988866)
In the grand scheme of things figuring out how to make model3's faster than they can sell them is a boring problem for Musk and I could imagine how frustrating it must be to have all the banks freaking out as if they're going to miss a fleeting opportunity to sell a bunch of cars. It's like when Nikola Tesla was trying to build worldwide wireless telegraphy but J.P. Morgan just wanted him to make fluorescent lights. Hopefully things go better for Elon than they did for Nikola.
Re:Tesla Plunges After a Conference Call by dragonwriter on Thursday May 03, 2018 @04:09PM (#16989439)
> In the grand scheme of things figuring out how to make model3's faster than they can sell them is a boring problem for Musk

It's the gateway problem to any of the ones he might find more interesting, and if he isn't willing to engage with that problem enough to satisfy investors, he should be “Chief Ivory Tower Visionary” and let someone else be CEO. Or, at least, get a COO and gracefully hand off boring operational questions to them.

Re:Tesla Plunges After a Conference Call by nostrademons on Thursday May 03, 2018 @04:16PM (#16989511)
The CEO role is Chief Ivory Tower Visionary. As CEO, your #1 job is to set the vision and strategy for the company, and your #2 is to get the right people on the bus and the wrong people off, which is dramatically easier with a strong vision.

He does desperately need a good COO though to make sure Tesla can actually deliver on its promises.

Re:Tesla Plunges After a Conference Call by dragonwriter on Thursday May 03, 2018 @04:35PM (#16989683)
> The CEO role is Chief Ivory Tower Visionary.

No, the CEO role is turning abstract vision into concrete strategy and communicating that strategy especially to investoes, because money people always want to hear things from the horse's mouth. It's a good thing for the CEO to be the visionary rather than channel someone else's vision, if they can do the rest of the job, but they can't be stuck in an ivory tower and think that addressing the path from present reality to distant vision is beneath their dignity.

Re:Tesla Plunges After a Conference Call by notheguyouthink on Friday May 04, 2018 @09:15AM (#16994320)
Lol, my old startup had a great Ivory tower CEO. We ran out of runway after he continually chased any shiny ball that the wind brought him. No monetary plans, no concept of what a usable product could be, just lots and lots of vision, and vague descriptions of implementations to the team.

That doesn't disqualify your statement, but it does highlight that - if that is correct, a COO is needed to put some sanity on the Ivory goals.

Then again, I was working for a startup. I guess that was a success (~25M funding before fizzling), as far as startups are concerned.. lol.

Re:Tesla Plunges After a Conference Call by petra on Thursday May 03, 2018 @04:39PM (#16989730)
Is it really ideal doing things this way ? Or is it just part of an ego trip, and deciding on such complex things as vision an strategy for a company are better done in a collaborative fashion, maybe with the CEO as the final arbitrer ?

And how much of that image of a all knowing visionary CEO is just a manufactured image ?

Re:Tesla Plunges After a Conference Call by nostrademons on Thursday May 03, 2018 @04:59PM (#16989915)
It's pretty difficult to generate a coherent vision by committee - you usually end up with something that nobody finds compelling, not even the people who collaborated on it.

And of course the image of an all-knowing visionary CEO is a manufactured image! It's not like people can actually predict the future. Rather, it's selection bias at work. Those CEOs whose vision doesn't resonate end up getting replaced, or their company goes bankrupt, and then they get written out of the history books. The thing is, you need to have a vision to get people excited and actually rowing in the same direction (nevermind the right direction), so without that you're dead in the water anyway.

Re:Tesla Plunges After a Conference Call by petra on Thursday May 03, 2018 @06:33PM (#16990636)
Sure visions aren't usually created by committee. But aren't visions usually starting very raw, and not really that valuable or unique("let's build a computer for every pocket") - and to get to a coherent and unique vision, you need some research and exploration, which is usually a team effort ?
Re:Tesla Plunges After a Conference Call by nostrademons on Thursday May 03, 2018 @07:33PM (#16990957)
No argument there (and I think that the success of Musk's companies is largely because of the faceless engineers he hires that toil away to make it a reality).

My point is that left to their own devices, most of those engineers would rather toil away on their own startups or hobby projects, and that convincing them to all work on a tiny piece of a big project requires someone who's both charismatic and has a finger on the pulse of what problems can excite people. Musk has been uniquely successful in aligning people to work on big, hairy, audacious goals.

Re:Tesla Plunges After a Conference Call by Avshalom on Thursday May 03, 2018 @03:35PM (#16989139)
For all that Musk is credited with versus what he actually invented he is not Tesla, he's Edison with worse business sense.
Re:Tesla Plunges After a Conference Call by jek3939 on Thursday May 03, 2018 @04:43PM (#16989767)
He’s building things other places won’t touch because of the economics

Everyone wants to sit and cross t’s and dot i’s because they are trained those matter more than net new

If those are the only conversations you have, only doing things you’re sure will be comfortable the economy and society stagnate

Economics are not the law of the land or reality. They’re a control mechanism for our output as a thinking, feeling, creative species

Let’s just make more banal phone apps I guess. The ones where the economics are well known to keep us safe

See stories about kids not playing outside or being allowed a quasi dangerous chemistry set

No one wants to be wrong so we take the safe route, which protects the status quo we all bitch about

Re:Tesla Plunges After a Conference Call by Avshalom on Thursday May 03, 2018 @05:05PM (#16989969)
Literally every industry he's involved in has competitors several of which pre-date his entrance in each.
Re:Tesla Plunges After a Conference Call by jek3939 on Thursday May 03, 2018 @05:31PM (#16990169)
And yet none of them are landing autonomous reusable rocket modules

Of all the 100% electric cars on road, he has two in the top 5

Who else has been pushing battery storage and solar systems that aren’t ugly af and simply made of old parts glued together in parallel?

All these other experts with experience can’t seem to hang with Johnny come lately.

Humans don’t have a history of being petty over others not being the same as them, or worse, outperforming them. We’d never cherry pick facts, and ignore the whole story. Why that would make us no better than animals

Re:Tesla Plunges After a Conference Call by Avshalom on Thursday May 03, 2018 @06:05PM (#16990424)
>>And yet none of them are landing autonomous reusable rocket modules

I watched Armadillo do that in 2005

>Of all the 100% electric cars on road, he has two in the top 5

And neither invented the category nor managed to turn a profit on it

>Who else has been pushing battery storage and solar systems that aren’t ugly af and simply made of old parts glued together in parallel?

For batteries: Panasonic, LG but also literally every battery company and chemistry department in the world.

For solar panels: also every chemistry department and dozens of companies, "China" as a vague term.

And these other experts: they're making money instead of losing it.

But even then this whole post buys into the idea that I some how have to disprove that Elon Musk does these things. He doesn't. Companies that Elon Musk is CEO of do those things.

Re:Tesla Plunges After a Conference Call by erikpukinskis on Thursday May 03, 2018 @09:27PM (#16991509)
When people are talking about SpaceX’s accomplishments, you can assume an implied “* from orbit”

I guarantee you John Carmack would not say he did anything close to what Musk did.

Re:Tesla Plunges After a Conference Call by Avshalom on Thursday May 03, 2018 @09:41PM (#16991581)
Yeah but they 'didn't do anything close' to what SpaceX (not Musk) did, 12.5 years ago. That nobody bothered to do it in the (presumably) 20 years that it was viable is probably an indication that while aesthetically cool it's probably not all that economically practical.
Re:Tesla Plunges After a Conference Call by no-s on Friday May 04, 2018 @03:13PM (#16997360)
i suspect the space industrial complex had built up a great deal of inefficiency, creating an economically practical exploitable opportunity for anyone with the gumption to face down the status quo. Heck, the heat shield on the dragon capsule is in the NASA database, practically free tech invented and tested in the 70's and dismissed by possibly dozens of programs except for a tiny few. SpaceX did a little appropriate tweaking and made it commercially viable and probably more suitable than everything else, despite industry groupthink...
Re:Tesla Plunges After a Conference Call by kentm on Thursday May 03, 2018 @04:54PM (#16989870)
Whether a problem is interesting is orthogonal to whether its important. This is an earnings call and scaling up production is actually an important issue to address for the company's long-term viability.
Re:Tesla Plunges After a Conference Call by manicdee on Thursday May 03, 2018 @08:12PM (#16991142)
The question wasn’t about scaling up production. It was a very specific question about trees when Tesla doesn’t really know what the forest looks like yet.
Re:Tesla Plunges After a Conference Call by kentm on Friday May 04, 2018 @01:31PM (#16996414)
If you're in the lumber business and giving estimates on how much wood you're going to deliver per month, then not knowing what the forest looks like might be considered something of an existential problem.

I get that Musk really enjoys thinking big and changing the world, and to such a person questions about capital expenditures might be dry and boring, but they're still important and need to be answered. If he doesn't want to do it then he should delegate.

Re:Tesla Plunges After a Conference Call by TAForObvReasons on Thursday May 03, 2018 @03:17PM (#16988947)
It may be a "boring" problem, but people aren't just paying for a reservation for nothing, ultimately they are expecting a car. And if there's no indication that they can meet the promises, that's a problem and he shouldn't be promising or giving wild production estimates in the first place.

Unless you believe that Musk is selling the ability for people to say they have a reservation. In which case there's no point to even bother building the cars in the first place.

Re:Tesla Plunges After a Conference Call by gfody on Thursday May 03, 2018 @03:38PM (#16989152)
but thousands of model3's are being produced and delivered every week. at this point it's just a matter of time for reservations to be filled and velocity will ramp up naturally as they improve their process. the investors panicking because velocity isn't doubled yesterday doesn't seem like long term thinking.
Re:Tesla Plunges After a Conference Call by arkis22 on Thursday May 03, 2018 @03:54PM (#16989315)
You can't focus on the long term at the expense of the short term if in between you're bankrupt.
Re:Tesla Plunges After a Conference Call by throwaway2048 on Thursday May 03, 2018 @04:04PM (#16989392)
This is a lot like the fallicious thinking surrounding poor people and why they so often remain in such shitty circumstances.

If they could afford long term planning and investment, by definition they wouldnt be poor.

Re:Tesla Plunges After a Conference Call by mwfunk on Thursday May 03, 2018 @03:53PM (#16989304)
...that’s not what investors are panicking over? You know that right?
Re:Tesla Plunges After a Conference Call by manicdee on Thursday May 03, 2018 @08:14PM (#16991149)
The investors are panicking because Elon didn’t answer two pointless questions.

Perhaps they need to ask better questions next time?