"..some people in the UK who think that unemployed people in the UK can get away with not doing anything."

As someone who was unemployed for a while in the late 90's, it was possible. I believe the system is a lot stricter now but a lot of people base their ideas on past experience.

I have a friend who has been long-term unemployed due to health reasons. He has to attend courses and such from time to time, which he actually enjoys because he would like to work. He does a bit of voluntary work too.

The story all seems to be the same though, on the first day there are maybe 20 people who turn up and by the end of the week most of them have dropped out.

I don't know the facts but, just guessing, maybe there are still ways of playing the system?

It's really hard to play the system.

Here's someone who was signed off work for heart problems. He had to have an independent medical (because DWP doesn't believe doctors) before he could claim disability benefits.

During the independent medical he had a heart attack. The healthcare professional had to stop the assessment and call for an ambo. The ambo staff arrived, and took him to hospital.

To you or me this is proof that he wasn't faking his heart problems and he is genuinely ill.

To the DWP it's failure to complete an assessment, and he was sanctioned for this non-completion.

(Read the Debbie Abrahams comments here: https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201213/cmhansrd/cm13... )

There are literally thousands of these.

So, while it's possible to defraud benefits it's not easy, and it's not common. It's certainly much tighter than it used to be in the 90s.

Dishonest unemployed people can get away with doing virtually nothing (or doing undisclosed work), most of the time, no?

In my experience, it is much more common that the job centre will refuse to believe those who are seeking work but can’t find it, than that people attempt to defraud the job centre.

If you don't get a job you're expected to take part in the Work Programme so no, people can't get away with doing nothing.

It's very hard to do undisclosed work because cash in hand work has been made much harder to get.

It's pretty hard to get away with doing nothing because your jobsearch is now online. You use DWP websites to record all your job searching. People may get away with it for a few weeks, but they're not going to get away with it for long.

We've heard a lot about the Hostile Environment. People think it just applies to Windrush, or maybe only to immigration. That's incorrect. It's a wide ranging policy and it fully applies to all benefits. That's why so many decisions are being overturned at first tier tribunal - the quality of decision making is piss poor and it's likely some of that is a deliberate choice.

Citation needed. A small minority maybe. Dishonesty can be hard work.

I'm not saying it's widespread, nor necessarily that easy (I don't know) but every few weeks I'm looking at our local news online and there's a story of someone claiming jobseekers, housing benefit, disability or attendance allowances, and they're working (and paying taxes it seems, so it should have been easy to catch them).

5s Google - http://www.4ni.co.uk/northern-ireland-news/243195/other-news..., some guy claiming whilst working.

Assuming not all cases are found - and stories I've seen in the past have been of people caught after well over a year of false claims - then it seems perfectly doable for those who are dishonest (through necessity or otherwise).

The rate of fraud on benefits is really low. Yes, it does happen, and a few people do get away with it for a long time. But it's wrong to suggest that it's widespread, and doing so causes harm because it encourages the Hostile Environment stuff.

Looking at your link, these people were caught reasonably quickly.

One of the people in your link managed to claim just £231. At his age he'd be getting £73 per week, so he fraudulently claimed less than a month.

It's harder to work out the other person, because they were also claiming housing benefit.

He lived at Ballysillan Crescent, Belfast, which is a B14 post code. Local housing allowance rates are https://www.nihe.gov.uk/index/benefits/lha/current_lha_rates...

Here's that street on Google maps: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.6291805,-5.9663763,3a,75y,...

Let's take the one bedroom rate of £86.16 per week, plus £73.10 per week = £159.26 per week. (this assumes he claims as a single person, and it lowers the weekly amount. I do this because I want to maximise the time he claimed for as a worst case). £4,114 / £159 = = 25 weeks. So, about 6 months. If he was claiming the 2 bedroom rate, or was claiming JSA as a couple he would have got more moeny per week, and so was caught much quicker.

You'll find similar in the other cases. People try it and they usually get caught within a year.

I don't think I said it was widespread, or anything to indicate that? I've been on Jobseekers and am likely to be again: yes we should guard against creating a hostile environment and assuming everyone is on the make, but pretending there's no fraud at all is surely not the way.

Are few people dishonest, or are most dishonest people caught.

My concern is if the system encourages moral compromise for survival and what this means for our society as a whole.