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Re:Ancient Mass Child Sacrifice in Peru May Be World's Largest by bambax on Saturday April 28, 2018 @08:11AM (#16947286)
Why "sacrifice" and not murder?

> "People sacrifice that which is of most and greatest value to them," he explains.

But then:

> isotopic analysis indicates that they were not all drawn from local populations but likely came from different ethnic groups and regions of the Chimú Empire

To accept to have your own child taken from you and cut open to offer its heart to some angry God supposes an amount of "faith" difficult to imagine. Isn't it more likely, they were taken by force?

It's always strange when we assume ancient people would necessarily be superstitious; maybe some were, and some weren't.

Isn't it reasonable to think that mass killing would be a punishment inflicted on one group to another, following, say, a long war, or simply a conquest?

Re:Ancient Mass Child Sacrifice in Peru May Be World's Largest by natalyarostova on Saturday April 28, 2018 @01:15PM (#16948581)
I certainly don't know the answer in this case, but to understand why sacrifice might be rational, you have to really contort your thinking and imagine your cost vs. benefit analysis when depriving your thought from centuries of advances in philosophy of science:

For the early humans many things obvious to us now were simply not known. The idea of an omnipotent sun god who controls the seasons isn't a priori crazy or anything. Why would it be? The normalization of how the solar system works only seems rational now because it's been scientifically presented to us.

In that sense a prediction that some entity controls this phenomena isn't necessarily superstitious. It's a fine prediction. But how do we get from there, to sacrifice?

Well, if we don't understand the mechanism of action for how these systems work, we can still try to make inference on them using statistics. For example: Sacrifice someone, then observe if anything changes. Before anyone ever ran this experiment, it's not obvious it wouldn't work. It's only obvious to us now because (a) we know the mechanism of action has no plausible link to human sacrifice, and (b) because people ran the experiment before, and it didn't work.

At the time, however, the benefit to this working would be huge, and the cost to society as a whole relatively small. This type of proto-statistical experimentation is, I think, what eventually led humanity to its core discoveries. In that sense we can't retroactively say the experiments that didn't work were superstitious or irrational, but the ones that did work were clever. For example, much of modern medicine arose from vast amounts of superstition and random experimentation.

Re:Ancient Mass Child Sacrifice in Peru May Be World's Largest by leetcrew on Saturday April 28, 2018 @09:20AM (#16947514)
> To accept to have your own child taken from you and cut open to offer its heart to some angry God supposes an amount of "faith" difficult to imagine.

abraham was willing.

Re:Ancient Mass Child Sacrifice in Peru May Be World's Largest by red75prime on Saturday April 28, 2018 @11:21AM (#16948073)
He stopped himself though. But yeah, more likely it was a neighbor who stopped him.
Re:Ancient Mass Child Sacrifice in Peru May Be World's Largest by psergeant on Saturday April 28, 2018 @12:13PM (#16948281)
He didn’t stop himself, according to the story, God intervened. He was willing To go the whole hog
Re:Ancient Mass Child Sacrifice in Peru May Be World's Largest by red75prime on Saturday April 28, 2018 @03:11PM (#16949025)
Do you think it was what really happened? Guy hears the voice telling him to kill his son, then someone stops him.
Re:Ancient Mass Child Sacrifice in Peru May Be World's Largest by psergeant on Sunday April 29, 2018 @12:45AM (#16950739)
I don’t believe any of Harry Potter really happened either, but that doesn’t mean I can arbitrarily claim the story is different from what it is.
Re:Ancient Mass Child Sacrifice in Peru May Be World's Largest by red75prime on Sunday April 29, 2018 @01:10AM (#16950789)
Please, remind me how significant are fairy tales in the context of discussing actual children sacrifices? The fact (well, the fact in the story) is Abraham haven't killed its own son.
Re:Ancient Mass Child Sacrifice in Peru May Be World's Largest by red75prime on Sunday April 29, 2018 @11:58AM (#16952527)
I'm sorry, I cannot interpret readers' reaction in any meaningful way. Did Abraham killed his own son? Or is it my mistyping of 'its own son'?
Re:Ancient Mass Child Sacrifice in Peru May Be World's Largest by leetcrew on Sunday April 29, 2018 @12:09PM (#16952582)
my comment that started this thread was admittedly of low quality.

to the extent that i am making a real point here, it is just that westerners should probably not find the idea of willing child sacrifice so bizarre/unbelievable when the common patriarch of judaism, christianity, and islam is portrayed as being totally devoted and willing in one of the faiths' most well known stories.

Re:Ancient Mass Child Sacrifice in Peru May Be World's Largest by mkempe on Saturday April 28, 2018 @02:16PM (#16948846)
At the re-consecration of the Great Pyramid of Tenochtitlan in 1487, the Aztecs sacrificed between 10,000 and 80,400 prisoners over the course of four days.

"For many rites, the victim had such a quantity of prescribed duties that it is difficult to imagine how the accompanying festival would have progressed without some degree of compliance on the part of the victim. For instance, victims were expected to bless children, greet and cheer passers-by, hear people's petitions to the gods, visit people in their homes, give discourses and lead sacred songs, processions and dances." [1]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_sacrifice_in_Aztec_cultu...

Re:Ancient Mass Child Sacrifice in Peru May Be World's Largest by fenwick67 on Saturday April 28, 2018 @10:07AM (#16947693)
The word "sacrifice" doesn't imply the consent of the person or animal being sacrificed
Re:Ancient Mass Child Sacrifice in Peru May Be World's Largest by macspoofing on Saturday April 28, 2018 @01:22PM (#16948621)
>Why "sacrifice" and not murder?

Words are tools. Which label is more descriptive in this context?

Re:Ancient Mass Child Sacrifice in Peru May Be World's Largest by verylittlemeat on Saturday April 28, 2018 @01:27PM (#16948643)
I think we have to be careful of reading the morality of our own culture into others.

That might sound glib but we have plenty of evidence even in our time of parents killing their children or allowing others to kill their children to save them from prophesied doom.

Re:Ancient Mass Child Sacrifice in Peru May Be World's Largest by dragonwriter on Saturday April 28, 2018 @02:47PM (#16948946)
> Why "sacrifice" and not murder?

The two terms aren't mutually exclusive (though the latter refers to unlawful intentional killing, and that probably doesn't apply here accept by importing foreign moral codes as law.)

And, in any case, “sacrifice” is used for things destroyed as offerings to supernatural entities irrespective of their value outside of that purpose for the people destroying them.

Re:Ancient Mass Child Sacrifice in Peru May Be World's Largest by tptacek on Saturday April 28, 2018 @03:10PM (#16949018)
The Nazis deliberately murdered children by the thousands, but nobody would call those “human sacrifices”.
Re:Ancient Mass Child Sacrifice in Peru May Be World's Largest by dustincoates on Saturday April 28, 2018 @06:29PM (#16949763)
Incidentally, that's what "Holocaust" means, and why many instead use the word "Shoah."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_the_Holocaust

> The word "holocaust" originally derived from the Greek word holokauston, meaning "a completely (holos) burnt (kaustos) sacrificial offering," or "a burnt sacrifice offered to a god."

> In Judaism, Shoah (שואה), meaning "calamity" in Hebrew, became the standard term for the 20th century Holocaust[2] (see Yom HaShoah). This is because 'Holocaust' connotes a sacrifice, and Jewish leaders argue there was no sacrifice.

Re:Ancient Mass Child Sacrifice in Peru May Be World's Largest by w0de0 on Saturday April 28, 2018 @09:47PM (#16950361)
Do 'Nakba' and 'Shoah' share an etymology?

Their etiologies are mixed, at least.

Re:Ancient Mass Child Sacrifice in Peru May Be World's Largest by tptacek on Saturday April 28, 2018 @08:42PM (#16950192)
Wow. TIL.
Re:Ancient Mass Child Sacrifice in Peru May Be World's Largest by kasey_junk on Saturday April 28, 2018 @05:01PM (#16949397)
I bet you can find literary or sociological texts that y’all about those as sacrifices to some modern diety concept.
Re:Ancient Mass Child Sacrifice in Peru May Be World's Largest by bambax on Sunday April 29, 2018 @03:36PM (#16953531)
But that's my point. Are you concurring or disagreeing?
Re:Ancient Mass Child Sacrifice in Peru May Be World's Largest by nprecup on Saturday April 28, 2018 @03:04PM (#16949000)
From some information in the article, it seems possible to me that the mass sacrifice might have been a cruel pacification technique by the conquering Inca? It says the Chimu empire fell around 1475 to the Inca. The rope and textiles were radiocarbon dated to 1400 to 1450 AD.
Re:Ancient Mass Child Sacrifice in Peru May Be World's Largest by dave_sullivan on Saturday April 28, 2018 @01:22PM (#16948623)
The movie Apocalypto comes to mind, where that is essentially the plot of the movie. I think you're probably right.