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Re:Things I Learned from a Job Hunt for a Senior Engineering... by cortesoft on Tuesday April 24, 2018 @01:10PM (#16914494)
So what is the interviewer supposed to do to find out if you can code? They want to give you a simple, straightforward task to see how you code. Of course, every simple, straightforward task is going to have an existing tool to do the job, but they aren't looking for a solution to parsing CSV, they are looking to see you code.

They can't ask you a complicated problem, because they don't have the time (nor do you) to solve a real problem that requires coding.

You are totally missing the point of what they are trying to ask you if you insist on using pandas for parsing CSV. Understanding the point of what you are being asked to do is critical to being a professional software developer.

Re:Things I Learned from a Job Hunt for a Senior Engineering... by eanzenberg on Tuesday April 24, 2018 @01:57PM (#16914922)
I think that is the point. If your business relies on importing csvs that cannot be imported with pandas then explain that, explain the edge cases where pandas has failed, and I will understand. If your business relies on having the best fucking palindrome product then that becomes super relevant.

They can definitely ask a complicated problem. On-sites are 4 hours long these days.

Re:Things I Learned from a Job Hunt for a Senior Engineering... by softawre on Tuesday April 24, 2018 @02:36PM (#16915344)
You sound like somebody who would derail all of the technical discussions and pat himself on the back for it because he was "technically correct" while still missing the point altogether.
Re:Things I Learned from a Job Hunt for a Senior Engineering... by tkxxx7 on Tuesday April 24, 2018 @03:02PM (#16915580)
I hear the opposite. They are stressing a technical opinion here, but for the sake of rationality and efficiency. These are usually not the same people that are overly concerned with "correctness" when communicating with others.
Re:Things I Learned from a Job Hunt for a Senior Engineering... by cortesoft on Tuesday April 24, 2018 @03:28PM (#16915762)
But it is only 'rational and efficient' if you are being obtuse... they aren't asking you to code a CSV parser because they actually need a CSV parser, they are asking because they want to see you code. The 'rational' thing to do is satisfy THAT requirement, which is the real one, not try to bypass the purpose by insisting on using a CSV library.

The ability to understand the underlying need behind a request is important to being a good employee. If a candidate fails completely to understand the purpose of a question during an interview, and in fact continues to argue against you as you explain it, they aren't a good candidate at all.

Re:Things I Learned from a Job Hunt for a Senior Engineering... by tkxxx7 on Tuesday April 24, 2018 @03:39PM (#16915870)
> The ability to understand the underlying need behind a request is important to being a good employee. If a candidate fails completely to understand the purpose of a question during an interview, and in fact continues to argue against you as you explain it, they aren't a good candidate at all.

I agree with everything you've said, but that still makes it a bad and equally obtuse question. If they don't actually need a CSV parser, they don't need to know that you can parse CSVs, either (if you can - which is the other point - you might be a pretty good programmer if you can quickly parse a CSV, but there are tons of excellent programmers who can't).

Re:Things I Learned from a Job Hunt for a Senior Engineering... by cableshaft on Tuesday April 24, 2018 @06:31PM (#16917229)
I recently couldn't use a built-in CSV parser and had to roll my own because one of our clients couldn't be arsed to send us consistently formatted CSV files so we had to include a bunch of edge cases in there to still correctly format the damn things. (sometimes pipe-delimited, other times comma delimited, sometimes fields surrounded by quotes, other times no quotes except one column (that has a LASTNAME, FIRSTNAME" in it), yet still other times has quotes in the data itself, fields usually have no commas, but sometimes this one field will have it in the middle of it, typos in header names, not including the end of file checksum that others include, etc). The built-in CSV reader you had to specify if the fields had surrounding quotes or not for the entire document, it didn't detect it on its own, for example.

And that was when I found out parsing something that should be as stupid simple as CSV file can actually be pretty complicated.

Re:Things I Learned from a Job Hunt for a Senior Engineering... by cortesoft on Wednesday April 25, 2018 @12:27PM (#16923152)
The ability to figure out actual requirements from poorly phrased requirements is also a very valuable skill to have as a software developer.
Re:Things I Learned from a Job Hunt for a Senior Engineering... by eanzenberg on Tuesday April 24, 2018 @04:18PM (#16916159)
I'll argue that a one-liner IS code. That's what I put into production systems.

I understood the "purpose" of the question and I self-selected myself out of a role I would've been bored, micromanaged at, and probably not challenged at.

Re:Things I Learned from a Job Hunt for a Senior Engineering... by cortesoft on Tuesday April 24, 2018 @03:24PM (#16915737)
The question on the interview isn't about the business, it is about showing your ability to design an algorithm. I is an exercise, not a purpose driven task.
Re:Things I Learned from a Job Hunt for a Senior Engineering... by gaius on Tuesday April 24, 2018 @01:45PM (#16914781)
So what is the interviewer supposed to do to find out if you can code?

I’ll take someone who gives an idiomatic answer over someone who reinvents the wheel anyday. Who is likely to be more productive on the job?

Re:Things I Learned from a Job Hunt for a Senior Engineering... by xyzzyz on Tuesday April 24, 2018 @01:56PM (#16914897)
Depends if the job can be done using one-liners from existing libraries.
Re:Things I Learned from a Job Hunt for a Senior Engineering... by kd5bjo on Tuesday April 24, 2018 @02:06PM (#16915012)
That depends on whether or not the job entails inventing new kinds of wheel.
Re:Things I Learned from a Job Hunt for a Senior Engineering... by gaius on Tuesday April 24, 2018 @03:40PM (#16915884)
Let's be honest: most commercial programming jobs don't. And the person with a thorough working knowledge of the standard libraries is in a better position to do it anyway.
Re:Things I Learned from a Job Hunt for a Senior Engineering... by rhizome on Tuesday April 24, 2018 @02:23PM (#16915193)
They want to give you a simple, straightforward task to see how you code.

Overgeneralized at best, LOLworthy at worst. Does this include palindrome questions for Ruby that require the use of linked lists? Because I had that from a CTO of a couple-hundred person company not two months ago.

Re:Things I Learned from a Job Hunt for a Senior Engineering... by cortesoft on Tuesday April 24, 2018 @03:30PM (#16915799)
What would make a good programming challenge for an in person interview?