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Re:Nissan's Path to Self-Driving Cars? Humans in Call Centers by stephengillie on Sunday April 22, 2018 @11:44AM (#16896635)
Level 4 self-driving seems the second-least desirable after Level 0, as it's entirely passive but requires full active attention. It's a ripe situation for distraction, something Tesla cars attempt to combat with the "wheel-squeeze".

From a cynical perspective, it's easy to see a future where we constantly approach, but never quite reach, full Level 5 autonomy - or at least not with existing technology. Maybe Level 5 will prove to be an NP problem. Marketing teams are likely going to promote terms like "Level 4.1 self-driving" or "Level 4.5 self-driving" or "Level 4.9 self-driving", as edge-cases are slowly resolved.

Re:Nissan's Path to Self-Driving Cars? Humans in Call Centers by icebraining on Sunday April 22, 2018 @12:57PM (#16897055)
Nah, that's Level 3.

"Level 4 ("mind off"): As level 3, but no driver attention is ever required for safety, i.e. the driver may safely go to sleep or leave the driver's seat."

Level 4 is like a Level 5, but that doesn't let you enable it for every route (e.g. you might be manually driving until the highway, then enable self-driving and go to sleep, then wake up with it parked right after the exit you chosen).

Re:Nissan's Path to Self-Driving Cars? Humans in Call Centers by notahacker on Sunday April 22, 2018 @12:23PM (#16896843)
Or regulators step in after too many inattentive human drivers fail to prevent very avoidable Level 4 accidents, and we end up with Level 2 driving with Level 5 parking capability permitted only on specific private properties.
Re:Nissan's Path to Self-Driving Cars? Humans in Call Centers by 21 on Sunday April 22, 2018 @02:10PM (#16897522)
> Maybe Level 5 will prove to be an NP problem.

Humans are able to "Level 5" driving, so...

Re:Nissan's Path to Self-Driving Cars? Humans in Call Centers by twic on Sunday April 22, 2018 @02:45PM (#16897769)
For a subset of cases, but not all of them, as traffic safety statistics show.
Re:Nissan's Path to Self-Driving Cars? Humans in Call Centers by Robotbeat on Sunday April 22, 2018 @03:08PM (#16897909)
Yup. Humans are allowed to make mistakes and fail fatally. If self-driving cars make a single fatal mistake, then watch out for negative press coverage for weeks. Why? Because every failure can be traced back to a root cause. Every root cause (other than something like another driver literally trying to kill you) looks like an incompetent screw-up after peeling back all the layers. In principle, self-driving cars are basically perfectly safe (as a system). So every failure causes righteous fingerpointing.

...which is also partly the motivation to improve.

I expect self-driving cars long-term to be a lot like air travel. It'll have a reputation for being super unsafe, with lots of people paranoid of it, for decades after it has far eclipsed the safety of regular human car driving. The paranoid hyper-focus and ridiculous press coverage is also what will enable it to become essentially perfect (like passenger air travel is today in the developed world).

Re:Nissan's Path to Self-Driving Cars? Humans in Call Centers by alkonaut on Sunday April 22, 2018 @03:55PM (#16898193)
> Yup. Humans are allowed to make mistakes and fail fatally.

It's because in almoost all cases, one fatal mistake results in one fatal accident. And in most cases, the failing party is part of the accident - giving us reason enough to believe people to what they can to avoid it.

With AI, one sloppy mistake can be the root cause of 100 fatalities, with no risk to the one who made the mistake. That's part of the reason we don't accept it.

Re:Nissan's Path to Self-Driving Cars? Humans in Call Centers by Robotbeat on Sunday April 22, 2018 @05:04PM (#16898573)
I think you’re right that human drivers makes it a lot easier to blame the victim (even though it’s really the whole system that made it possible for the human to make such a mistake that is responsible... the system isn’t held to account because it’s just so easy to blame the human for making the proximate fatal error).