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Re:Heart surgeons refuse difficult operations to avoid poor ... by kazinator on Saturday April 21, 2018 @02:55PM (#16892738)
Low mortality is a good damned measure.

I don't want to be operated on some yahoo surgeon who unconditionally operates regardless of risk and has a high mortality track record as a result.

Re:Heart surgeons refuse difficult operations to avoid poor ... by croon on Saturday April 21, 2018 @03:25PM (#16892915)
Then maybe mortality rate should be attributed to doctors not operating as well. Low mortality is a good metric on patients, not doctors.

But on the other hand, I don't want to be treated by a doctor who cares more about his sellable stats than saving lives.

Re:Heart surgeons refuse difficult operations to avoid poor ... by ScottBurson on Saturday April 21, 2018 @06:34PM (#16893748)
Maybe it's a good metric for hospitals. There are other pressures discouraging hospitals from rejecting patients altogether, or such is my impression, anyway.
Re:Heart surgeons refuse difficult operations to avoid poor ... by sowbug on Saturday April 21, 2018 @04:01PM (#16893121)
You say that as if you had a choice. The point of the article is that you don't. That yahoo doctor is the only one willing to operate on you. The rest -- presumably the smart ones -- are playing the game to win, so they'll sit out this turn, because you're a bad bet.
Re:Heart surgeons refuse difficult operations to avoid poor ... by manigandham on Saturday April 21, 2018 @04:04PM (#16893138)
The point is that if you are already dying then you would prefer the surgery instead of doing nothing. The doctors seem to have no problem with actually doing the work but don't like their stats ruined, which is rather disconcerting given the consequences.

Your comment also shows that patients are just as much of an issue by focusing on the metric more than the cases involved.

Re:Heart surgeons refuse difficult operations to avoid poor ... by dtech on Saturday April 21, 2018 @03:31PM (#16892946)
If you need a high-risk operation or die, no-one wants to operate on you because of this rule.
Re:Heart surgeons refuse difficult operations to avoid poor ... by smsm42 on Saturday April 21, 2018 @03:56PM (#16893089)
You are committing a common fallacy - when evaluating risk, you are considering only one of the alternatives and forgetting the risk of the other. Yes, nobody wants to be operated on by a yahoo. But mortality is not a good measure of yahoo-ness, because in some cases not operating carries larger risk of death than operating. And if a surgeon decides to operate in this case, the decision is right even if resulting risk is high - because the alternative is even higher risk. Considering only mortality rate of operations ignores this. It is a variation of survivorship bias, only on the opposite side.
Re:Heart surgeons refuse difficult operations to avoid poor ... by setr on Saturday April 21, 2018 @03:40PM (#16893000)
You presumably want the metric (operation, mortality rate); its useless to consider mortality across the board, because that assumes all activities are equally risky. Otherwise, you end up like this, just entirely removing the option of high-risk activities, regardless of the potential benefit.

Essentially, the doctor has decided that he doesn't want to take the risk of killing you, even if you're willing to accept it. Why should that be the doctor's choice to make, and why is he being given this additional risk, when the benefit/loss should clearly be yours?

Re:Heart surgeons refuse difficult operations to avoid poor ... by sh4z on Saturday April 21, 2018 @03:10PM (#16892829)
A doctor might have a 5% mortality track record for a surgery that generally has a 20% mortality risk. I feel like you are pushing it to an extreme with this yahoo doctor example.
Re:Heart surgeons refuse difficult operations to avoid poor ... by rtkwe on Saturday April 21, 2018 @04:17PM (#16893212)
It becomes a bad measure because once it's a target people start to manipulate it in order to hit the target. In this case if a surgeon refuses to take anything but easy surgeries their stats will look amazing but it says very little about their actual abilities.
Re:Heart surgeons refuse difficult operations to avoid poor ... by lucio on Sunday April 22, 2018 @10:25AM (#16896285)
but he'll become good at accurately measuring risk, so if accepts to operate on you, you can be certain that your case is simple and your odds of dying on the table are slim.
Re:Heart surgeons refuse difficult operations to avoid poor ... by Retra on Saturday April 21, 2018 @06:09PM (#16893671)
Some doctors have high mortality records because they specialize in treating deadly diseases. And you'd rather be treated by a doctor who has only ever treated non-fatal ones? Well, that'll work if you never have anything worse than a common cold.
Re:Heart surgeons refuse difficult operations to avoid poor ... by abritinthebay on Saturday April 21, 2018 @03:03PM (#16892785)
When the option is "or die" I think you'd change your tune.
Re:Heart surgeons refuse difficult operations to avoid poor ... by xab9 on Saturday April 21, 2018 @03:51PM (#16893066)
I'm so happy that this system of 'likes' works for some people.
Re:Heart surgeons refuse difficult operations to avoid poor ... by flamedoge on Saturday April 21, 2018 @03:37PM (#16892984)
So if it's difficult we shouldn't try?
Re:Heart surgeons refuse difficult operations to avoid poor ... by henriquemaia on Saturday April 21, 2018 @03:19PM (#16892889)
Finger ----------------> Moon

^ You're looking at this.