It’s not clear at all by this definition if I sell guitar picks on my personal store and I’m located in say Zimbabwe I’m either forbidden form selling it to the EU or will have to comply with the GDPR which can be prohibitive to me due to local laws.

The GDPR isn’t clear only anything it rewrittes agreeable concepts of localization which have much more severe applications than simply the GDPR.

It also provides zero channels and infrastructure for non-EU entities to comply to the GDPR in a manner which is offered to local EU companies.

If the GDPR would define its scope as if I can buy form you you must comply what stops the EU form mandating I must collect VAT on their behalf?

Laws are not always crystal clear in each case because to do so risks making them capable of being worked around (and of course in some cases they are just badly drafted - but I don't see this so much with GDPR). Laws are then subject to interpretation by the courts and by lawyers. If you're having issues with understanding laws, then you may need an expert to guide you, as in many areas of life.

Recital 23 of GDPR will give you insight into how your Zimbabwean guitar pick seller would be treated. If they are consciously offering picks to data subjects in the EU, either through specifically referencing EU data subjects, or through offering picks in EU currencies or tailoring the site for different European languages, then they are likely in scope.

Conflict of laws provisions are a separate point, however in various areas, the GDPR expressly states that legal obligations override GDPR obligations in various areas.

Whenever any company considers that a law may apply to them (whether as a result of operating in the country or because of the extra-territorial implications of certain laws, like GDPR) they generally take advice from local lawyers as to the implications or do independent research.

The regulation is obviously available and there is a host of interpretative guidelines issued by the Article 29 Working Party which will enable anyone with enough time and desire to understand the implications of compliance. I'm not sure what kind of assistance you're looking for here? It's incumbent on the party who wants to operate in a country/provide services to users in that country to understand the relevant laws.

If you disagree with the extra-territorial application of the GDPR then that's a separate issue. Bringing international tax treatment into the discussion is also not of relevance.

Yes laws are not crystal clear but you don't understand the problem because when laws are unclear in your country / union there is a clear channel to debate it which is the regulator and the courts this channels are not available to extra-territorial parties.

Add to that the fact that you now have laws enforced on you that you have no control on how they were written or are enforced because you are not part of the electorate that passed them.

International law is applied when 2 countries agree on a common set of rules in which case you have 2 representative electorates which are mediating an agreement.

The GDPR has no legal basis of application it's not part of any trade agreement or any other international agreement between the EU and other countries.

The claim that it somehow applicable is essentially tyrannical despite the intent of the law the means through which and the fact that people support it's universal application is terrifying.

What is even more terrifying is the likely means of enforcement which will be through the multinationals.

>The regulation is obviously available and there is a host of interpretative guidelines issued by the Article 29 Working Party which will enable anyone with enough time and desire to understand the implications of compliance. I'm not sure what kind of assistance you're looking for here? It's incumbent on the party who wants to operate in a country/provide services to users in that country to understand the relevant laws.

What are you even trying to say here? If I don't live in the EU, have no legal presence in the EU I have no means through which I must comply with the GDPR.

Mandating that I would create a local legal entity to serve as a proxy in a member state is a violation of existing trade agreements and WTO rules.

Enforcement of extra-territorial laws must be done through a process which is agreeable and understood by all parties.

>If you disagree with the extra-territorial application of the GDPR then that's a separate issue. Bringing international tax treatment into the discussion is also not of relevance.

This entire debate is about the extra-territorial application of the GDPR, bringing international tax treatment is super relevant because it's an established framework and it already establish things like localization which are critical for extra-territorial application that the GDPR must follow.

People really need to wake up and understand that the GDPR isn't about Facebook or eBay, Amazon or the likes it applies to them equally as it applies to your local dry cleaner or hair dresses which collect and process Personal Information as defined under the GDPR and are subject to the full extent of it's regulatory requirements.

What is more frighting is that through commerce of either tangible goods or services this regulation can be applied to non-EU entities in not only a extra-territorial fashion but in also extra-judicial one.

The reality is that either many small businesses or businesses regardless to which the volume of trade they have with the EU is less than the cost of compliance would likely be forced to stop offering services to EU consumers or switch to a proxy like well eBay or Amazon.

The scope of regulation like FATCA or SOX which were mentioned here as examples applies to institutions that can afford it and can handle it.

The GDPR applies to everyone equally, actually that isn't true if it applies to non-EU entities it doesn't apply equally it's much more costlier to them. If nothing else is then just by your ridiculous example "consult a lawyer" then a GDPR lawyer in Belgium or the UK would be fairly cheap since it's an established local law, to get the same level of advice and to get arbitration with a DPA in say Bolivia you can't go to an ambulance chaser you'll be limited to an international law firm. Not to mention that getting legal advice for such services can be achieved for free in the EU through the local DPA and or various organizations like Citizen Advice which provide legal assistance.

> What are you even trying to say here? If I don't live in the EU, have no legal presence in the EU I have no means through which I must comply with the GDPR.

I was responding to your point that there were zero channels to help non-EU companies to comply.

I’m really not sure on what resources you think are available to EU companies that are not available to non-EU companies? You would definitely not get GDPR advice at the Citizens Advice as they have more important matters to deal with. To the extent a local regulator would provide guidance to an EU company, I am certain they would also provide to a non-EU company looking to comply. You present it as a clear distinction between EU vs non-EU companies but that simply is not the case!

We can agree to disagree on the pros and cons of an extra-territorial law but don’t misrepresent the position in terms of help available to EU vs non-EU companies.

Also your point about hairdressers is nonsense. A non-EU based hairdresser is very muh out of scope of GDPR!

Local DPA, local courts, local MPs, industry unions, EU MPs, EU high courts.

And please tell me how say I as a small merchant in any country outside of the EU can get in touch with them and get services from any of them.

Better yet please tell me how a lawyer in Mexico or the Philippines would be able to advise me on GDPR unless they are part of a top tier international law firm which operates in the EU and has experience with GDPR.

Please let me know to which non-EU bar associations were provided with materials and guidance and have conducted workshops and seminars in order to ensure that they would be able to provide legal advice on this manner by a DPA or any other EU regulatory agency.

>You would definitely not get GDPR advice at the Citizens Advice as they have more important matters to deal with.

Wanna bet? citizens information board (CA in Ireland) already offers such service (so does Citizens Advice Edinburgh), in the UK the ACF provides GDPR related legal council to foundations, a lot of other industry organizations offer similar services.

> I am certain they would also provide to a non-EU company looking to comply. You present it as a clear distinction between EU vs non-EU companies but that simply

They will not provide any service or information to you, in fact they are forbidden from doing so trying contacting an MP who isn't yours or an agency outside of your member state.

>We can agree to disagree on the pros and cons of an extra-territorial law but don’t misrepresent the position in terms of help available to EU vs non-EU companies.

There is anything to disagree about, this isn't about extra-territorial law this is about extra-judicial application of it which is tyranny since you are applying laws and regulation outside of the scope of international law and frameworks. The fact that you accept this as something good makes me think that the brexiters might have had a point.

>Also your point about hairdressers is nonsense. A non-EU based hairdresser is very muh out of scope of GDPR!

I think you should practice on your reading comprehension I'm in the EU on the 25th of May I am submitting a data access request letter to my dry cleaner (I like my hairdresser), Pristine Dry Cleaners just for the lolz and to show just how ridiculous it can be.

I know for a fact that they have my name, address and phone number since it was required during registration and I also know that their branch in East Finchley shares the same database as the one in Lancaster Gate since I've used both despite being different franchises so I really want to know who they shared those with.

Ok, my apologies for not picking up on the fact you are in the EU. Is it the cost that is stopping you from making a subject access request today under existing laws?

Apologies also - I took Citizens' Advice in the narrow sense of the Citizens Advice Bureau (I used to work there so it's in my subconscious) who generally deal with benefits, employment and housing law queries. I took a look at the citizensinformation.ie and did a search for GDPR - I can't see much in the way of materials unfortunately. ACF makes materials available which can be read by anyone regardless of location. Sure, they might make advice available to local entities, but this would be a small benefit to EU orgs vs non-EU orgs.

However I still don't really follow your point how organisations will approach GDPR compliance in general and the idea that there is a massive gap between what is available to EU entities versus non EU entities.

For lots of organisations, GDPR will not be on their radar, and life will go on as normal post May 25th.

For organisations aware of GDPR, their route to compliance will be through reading the source materials and supporting materials available on the Art 29 Working Party website. That is the case regardless of whether the organisation is in or out the EU. They can consult materials from third parties like ACF but the core materials are as above.

I don't really think contacting your MP or actually contacting a regulator is something which many entities have actually done because actually the base regulation and the interpretation notes are sufficient to understand what an organisation has to do to comply (again available to anyone who cares to read). In terms of court access

In terms of access to legal advice, then I don't quite think it's as bad you paint out here! I've instructed local counsel in multiple countries direct and it's a straightforward process and those firms were not part of a top tier international law firm network. Often smaller local firms have firms of similar sizes in other countries that they can refer work to. If other peoples' implementations of GDPR are anything like my company's then the extent of legal advice sought will have been limited.

I think overall I take your point that resources on offer to non EU companies may be a more limited, but overall the core resources are the same. Lots of non-EU entities have been working very hard on looking to comply with GDPR using the above resources and taking local legal advice where relevant. I agree that for smaller organisations this is more problematic, but this is the case regardless of location to an extent.

I do take your point about the extra-judicial nature though. We will have to see how things work out. My instinct is that for lots of companies it will be business as usual and the local regulators will have bigger targets that they want to go after.

The company I work for has been working on GDPR compliance for the better part of 3 years.

We also maintain compliance in the financial sector and we have both very good in house and external counsel which works with both the ICO and political institutions to ensure we meet our compliance.

The fact is that as an EU citizen you have a say about how the GDPR is applied and you have a say in how it will be enforced and interpreted.

As a non-EU entity you have no voice.

You also cannot ask for assistance from any EU or member state body.

You also don’t have access to DPA run events for example: https://ico.org.uk/about-the-ico/news-and-events/speaking-en...

Now if you want a good comparison as you have worked for a legal aid organization before you can likely estimate the hourly billable of a lawyer in the UK to provide you counsel on UK or EU law vs say FATCA or SOX.

My bet is that it would likely be at least 3 zeros in difference.

The fear isn’t that a DPA would go after you, but rather that they’ll force service providers to compell you to comply.

Under the GDPR for PayPal to remain compliant it needs to ensure that all merchants that use it to receive payments from EU residents are also compliant because you share your Personal Information with PayPal who then shares it with the merchant (name, email, address, phone number etc.).

This is going to be the likely channel of enforcement not them dragging you to court.