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A comment on Many Bitcoin Miners Are at Risk of Turning Unprofitable. Parent comment

Re:Many Bitcoin Miners Are at Risk of Turning Unprofitable by downandout on Wednesday April 18, 2018 @10:09AM (#16867503)
>Police can absolutely seize the physical artifacts on which your wallet resides.

They have to find it first, which can be easy or difficult, depending on how motivated you are to make it difficult. You can quite easily make it more difficult than it is for them to walk into a bank and say “freeze this account”.

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Re:Many Bitcoin Miners Are at Risk of Turning Unprofitable by balls187 on Wednesday April 18, 2018 @11:21AM (#16868082)
Difficult, but not impossible

A US judge ordering a person to turn over their BTC wallet would be check.

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Re:Many Bitcoin Miners Are at Risk of Turning Unprofitable by downandout on Wednesday April 18, 2018 @01:06PM (#16868999)
Yeah, but if they can't get to it before you are aware of what's going on (as is the case with most asset seizures) then you can deal with the situation first. For example, a judge issues an order for you to turn over the private keys, and jails you until you decide to comply. Someone you trust that has access to the private keys transfers funds out of that wallet, then you turn over the private key. You have complied with the order to turn over the keys, and you have deniability ("someone must have seen news of my arrest in the press and broken into my storage shed...the one you guys didn't check...where the keys were stored!").
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Re:Many Bitcoin Miners Are at Risk of Turning Unprofitable by balls187 on Wednesday April 18, 2018 @02:16PM (#16869594)
Judges don't like it when individuals attempt to circumvent their authority.
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Re:Many Bitcoin Miners Are at Risk of Turning Unprofitable by downandout on Wednesday April 18, 2018 @04:52PM (#16871073)
And private citizens don’t like it when judges order their money to be taken without warning or consent. I was just saying that crypto gives people options that might enable them to maintain more control over the situation than they would have if their money is just sitting in a bank.
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Re:Many Bitcoin Miners Are at Risk of Turning Unprofitable by balls187 on Wednesday April 18, 2018 @08:24PM (#16872423)
Do judges seize property without a legal reason?

Certainly the police seize property citing dubious reasons, but are there examples of judges seizing financial assets without legal authority to do so?

Police can use civil forfeiture to seize property; but can't use civil forfeiture laws to compel you to give up your gmail password. That requires a court order/warrant. Hence the original comment about a judge could compel you into turning over your BTC Wallet.

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Re:Many Bitcoin Miners Are at Risk of Turning Unprofitable by downandout on Thursday April 19, 2018 @12:23AM (#16873316)
Do judges seize property without a legal reason?

Whether the reason is valid or not doesn’t matter much to the target of such an order. They still lose access to their funds. People who care about that possibility may want to take steps to make it more difficult for someone to do this to them. That’s all I was saying.

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Re:Many Bitcoin Miners Are at Risk of Turning Unprofitable by balls187 on Thursday April 19, 2018 @02:42AM (#16873825)
Okay, thank you for the clarification, I understand your point better.
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Re:Many Bitcoin Miners Are at Risk of Turning Unprofitable by Daishiman on Wednesday April 18, 2018 @08:30PM (#16872460)
Private citizens aren't above the law, tough guy.
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Re:Many Bitcoin Miners Are at Risk of Turning Unprofitable by downandout on Thursday April 19, 2018 @12:14AM (#16873287)
As a practical matter, they are if their encryption can’t be broken.
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Re:Many Bitcoin Miners Are at Risk of Turning Unprofitable by Daishiman on Thursday April 19, 2018 @05:48PM (#16880476)
As a practical matter, you get held in contempt of court until you decrypt stuff, and God help you if you're in the UK where they can hold people if they have a suspicion that you're hiding something.
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Re:Many Bitcoin Miners Are at Risk of Turning Unprofitable by conanbatt on Wednesday April 18, 2018 @04:55PM (#16871103)
That is fundamentally unenforceable...as much as ordering someone to turn over cash.
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Re:Many Bitcoin Miners Are at Risk of Turning Unprofitable by balls187 on Wednesday April 18, 2018 @08:36PM (#16872482)
> That is fundamentally unenforceable...as much as ordering someone to turn over cash.

Defying the courts authority is Contempt of Court. If you fail to comply with a judges order, that can lead to incarceration. Continue to defy, can lead to criminal incarceration.

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Re:Many Bitcoin Miners Are at Risk of Turning Unprofitable by conanbatt on Wednesday April 18, 2018 @11:42PM (#16873167)
Sure but its unenforceable. You can even kill someone but not get their cash/bitcoin.
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Re:Many Bitcoin Miners Are at Risk of Turning Unprofitable by majewsky on Wednesday April 18, 2018 @05:33PM (#16871418)
Good to know that civil forfeiture does not exist. /s
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Re:Many Bitcoin Miners Are at Risk of Turning Unprofitable by conanbatt on Wednesday April 18, 2018 @11:55PM (#16873221)
Civil forfeiture can't confiscate cash they don't know where it is.
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Re:Many Bitcoin Miners Are at Risk of Turning Unprofitable by rufugee on Wednesday April 18, 2018 @10:18AM (#16867561)
Honestly not sure why you're being downvoted here. Your point seems reasonable and true based on how easy it is to create a paper wallet and make that paper sheet all but unfindable.
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Re:Many Bitcoin Miners Are at Risk of Turning Unprofitable by downandout on Wednesday April 18, 2018 @10:46AM (#16867794)
Maybe they’re fans of asset seizures :).
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