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Re:Teenager facing prison for downloading unsecured files fr... by defined on Monday April 16, 2018 @08:48PM (#16854420)
I disagree, because the analysis is faulty.

Computers always do what you _tell_ them to do, not what you want them to do.

The onus for keeping computerized material private is on the owner, and the owner screwed up royally by wrongly allowing sensitive material to be placed unprotected on a _public_ web site. Whether or not it was indexed is irrelevant - it was on a publicly accessible site, permissions set to publicly accessible, and the entire site was meant to be publicly accessible. One can close the analysis until the cows come home, it will not change this fact.

Accessing that material is as illegal as finding a diamond ring (or personal files) while dumpster diving. Dumpster diving may be seen as tasteless or low-class, but as far as I know, it’s not illegal.

Do we prosecute reporters for ferreting out publicly available, yet embarrassing, information?

Re:Teenager facing prison for downloading unsecured files fr... by harryh on Monday April 16, 2018 @09:56PM (#16854771)
Dumpster diving is legal (in most places but not all) because the owners has, by putting something in the trash, expressed their intent to not own the item in question anymore.

A website isn't a trash can though.

If I accidentally leave a diamond ring (or personal files) in public somewhere and you take them that is absolutely theft.

Re:Teenager facing prison for downloading unsecured files fr... by fenomas on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @12:23AM (#16855449)
A web server is a thing people use to make files publicly accessible - it has no other purpose. It has stronger expectations against privacy than a trash can.

As such, your analogies to situations (locked houses, unattended jewelry) with the opposite expectation just disprove your point. Assuming a file is private even though it's publicly accessible on a web server is as nonsensical as assuming an object is free for the taking even though it's an unattended diamond ring.

Re:Teenager facing prison for downloading unsecured files fr... by JorgeGT on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @06:23AM (#16857014)
I mean, it's in the name, web server. It serves things to people when people asks:

   - Hey, can I GET this drink?

   - 200 OK, here it is pal. 
   - 204 Uh, the bottle appears to be empty
   - 206 I have only half the ingredients for the mix
   - 300 Stirred or shaken?
   - 301 That drink is now called this, but here it is!
   - 400 I can't understand what you say buddy, are you drunk?
   - 403 I'm sorry, but I must refuse to serve you that drink
   - 404 Oops, I can't seem to find the bottle
   - 411 How much do you want?
   - 413 That's too much drink!
   - 418 I'm actually a teapot 
   - 503 Too busy right now!
Re:Teenager facing prison for downloading unsecured files fr... by harryh on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @10:02AM (#16858357)
A web server is a thing people use to make files publicly accessible

False.

There are lots of things on webservers that aren't public. Try to access:

https://github.com/harryh/my-private-repo

You can't, because github hasn't made a mistake and accidentally made all private repos public.

If github screwed up one day and all private repos were temporarily made public it would be illegal for you to run a script that tried to scrape them all down to your personal hard drive.

Re:Teenager facing prison for downloading unsecured files fr... by gtlondon on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @06:30AM (#16857043)
But...you would have left the diamond ring by accident.

Files don't "accidentally" become publicly accessible via HTTP. i.e. you don't return to your computer one day to find everything is public.

Someone specifically took the steps to make this data public. The fact they didn't realize what they were doing isn't the fault of people that then view the data.

Re:Teenager facing prison for downloading unsecured files fr... by foldr on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @06:58AM (#16857175)
>Files don't "accidentally" become publicly accessible via HTTP

Hmm? It's certainly possible to configure a web server incorrectly by accident.

Re:Teenager facing prison for downloading unsecured files fr... by gtlondon on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @08:10AM (#16857548)
That's true.

But as the person knows they are configuring a web server, I would say this is more carelessness / incompetence rather than an "accident" in the same way as losing a Diamond Ring would be.

Re:Teenager facing prison for downloading unsecured files fr... by foldr on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @08:16AM (#16857579)
Sure, but your carelessness doesn't absolve me of my crime. If you lose your diamond ring out of carelessness, it's still not ok for me to steal it.
Re:Teenager facing prison for downloading unsecured files fr... by iak8god on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @02:08PM (#16860819)
These analogies involving valuable physical items are way off base. If I'm walking along the street and see a diamond ring lying there, I can only assume that it belongs to someone else and they've misplaced it (because it's very valuable and, crucially, there is no way for the owner to make use of its value if they've lost possession of it). I may not have any way to locate the owner, but I still recognize that it belongs to someone else and that for me to take it and keep it would deprive them of their property (probably, I should take it to the police).

If you insist on analogies involving lost rings, this situation is more like taking a picture of a ring someone lost in the street than it is like taking the ring.

Re:Teenager facing prison for downloading unsecured files fr... by foldr on Wednesday April 18, 2018 @06:08AM (#16866074)
No, that's a terrible analogy, because a picture of a diamond ring is worth much less than the ring. A copy of valuable information is generally worth just as much as the original. And while no-one would care if someone else had a picture of their diamond ring, they would care if someone else had a copy of their private information.
Re:Teenager facing prison for downloading unsecured files fr... by rootlocus on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @09:29AM (#16858042)
> Sure, but your carelessness doesn't absolve me of my crime.

If his carelessness meant communicating that you could take the ring without stealing it (say placing it in the donation basket instead of his wallet), that would absolve you of your crime.

Re:Teenager facing prison for downloading unsecured files fr... by rayiner on Monday April 16, 2018 @09:22PM (#16854610)
> The onus for keeping computerized material private is on the owner

I don’t think that’s a sensible rule and at the end of the day, it’s not the one that’s going to prevail. The Internet will be sanitized and made safe for all the people who forget their passwords and write them in their monitors. The Internet is for ordinary people now, not curious teenager hackers. And ordinary people will make the rules to suit themselves.

Re:Teenager facing prison for downloading unsecured files fr... by pdonis on Monday April 16, 2018 @11:25PM (#16855218)
> The Internet will be sanitized and made safe for all the people who forget their passwords and write them in their monitors.

And how, exactly, is this "sanitization" going to occur? Are you saying that having 15 police officers raid a home and confiscate multiple computers (all but one of which had nothing to do with the incident in question), arresting a completely uninvolved person on his way to school, and taking no action at all against the stupid contractor who set up the website, is an acceptable form of "sanitization"?

> The Internet is for ordinary people now, not curious teenager hackers.

That's not what the police action described in the article is saying. It's saying the Internet is for government and corporations, and God help the ordinary people who get in their way. (Btw, I include "curious teenager hackers" in "ordinary people". Perhaps the fact that you don't is part of the problem.)

Re:Teenager facing prison for downloading unsecured files fr... by ScottBurson on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @04:06AM (#16856432)
This can't work, for the simple reason that the Internet has global reach. Unlike other kinds of personal property, a Web server is accessible to the entire world. There are lots of people out there who have no reason to respect US or Canadian law, and there always will be. Prosecuting this young man, or Weev, may make some "ordinary" people feel better, but doesn't begin to deter any actual criminals.

The only solution is site owners taking responsibility for securing their sites, in accordance with the sensitivity of the information on them. The sooner "ordinary" people realize that, the better.

Re:Teenager facing prison for downloading unsecured files fr... by jessaustin on Monday April 16, 2018 @09:55PM (#16854769)
Ordinary young people already laugh at this sort of ignorance. Ordinary old people will die soon.
Re:Teenager facing prison for downloading unsecured files fr... by rayiner on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @07:20AM (#16857280)
Ordinary young people today are probably even less computer literate than ordinary people my age (mid 30s). They grew up being spoon fed the Internet through the FB and Snapchat apps on iPhones.
Re:Teenager facing prison for downloading unsecured files fr... by jessaustin on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @08:37AM (#16857698)
Your entire argument is based on this idiosyncratic theory of widespread ignorance. This theory is simply wrong, as a matter of fact. Even if it were true, no historical case ever turned on the unprovable notion that most people are too dumb to understand the truth.

Since you didn't respond when I raised it elsewhere in-thread, I would highlight again the fundamental imbalance between the rules you would impose on Facebook etc. and those you would impose on users. Firms that spend billions of dollars developing their systems only have to be as smart as the most ignorant person we can imagine. Their users, in contrast, must be geniuses to keep up with their many changes to TOS, interfaces, and functionality, while simultaneously those genius users aren't allowed to notice that numbers follow each other in sequence. This is nonsense on its face, but then again authoritarian maneuvers are their own justification, aren't they?

Re:Teenager facing prison for downloading unsecured files fr... by rootlocus on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @05:14AM (#16856684)
> The Internet is for ordinary people

If we're at the topic of wishful thinking, I wished ordinary people would understand basic things about the internet. The purpose of humanity as a whole shouldn't be to dumb things down for "ordinary people". It should be to better teach and educate new generations, so we won't be able to assume ordinary people are dumb.

Re:Teenager facing prison for downloading unsecured files fr... by dSpect on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @05:23AM (#16856733)
Web scraping is a normal occurence on the internet not just limited to curious teenage hackers. When I grew up we didn't lock our doors because we knew and trusted our neighborhood. It's like you're asking 4chan to use polite vocabulary.