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Re:Teenager facing prison for downloading unsecured files fr... by rayiner on Monday April 16, 2018 @07:28PM (#16853932)
This seems more like a failure to develop proper social norms with regard to Internet information.

> If the information is not supposed to be public, it should not be reachable without authorization or authentication.

I don't lock my car, and often not my house either. I don't think that means you should be able to snoop around and see what interests you. Websites are private property. It is obvious what parts you're supposed to see and what parts you're not supposed to see. You should be able to prosecute snoops as an alternative to locking things down, as you would with any other private property.

Re:Teenager facing prison for downloading unsecured files fr... by clouddrover on Monday April 16, 2018 @07:34PM (#16853973)
But the difference is that a website is built to be publicly accessible on the public internet.

Your car, presumably, is not offered as a public resource.

Re:Teenager facing prison for downloading unsecured files fr... by rayiner on Monday April 16, 2018 @07:36PM (#16853984)
Except this data was obviously not intended to be publicly accessible, or else it would have been reachable from some public-facing portion of the site.
Re:Teenager facing prison for downloading unsecured files fr... by lawnchair_larry on Monday April 16, 2018 @08:32PM (#16854338)
You’ve never heard of an API then?

This is silly. Your door analogies have no place at all.

A great many websites work this way.

Unless you’re injecting metacharacters into URLs, or requesting AAAAAAAA * 65535 followed by shellcode, changing paramter values is using HTTP exactly as designed, and a well-formed request has many possible error codes for the exact purpose of letting you know what you are allowed to access.

It’s perfectly normal for people to alter URLs. The fact that people who are unfamiliar with URLs don’t do that is irrelevant, and you could say the same for any subject. Just yesterday I changed lat= and lon= to get a NOAA forecast. Is that snooping or hacking? How about when we change the integer at the end of an XKCD comic to view another one without previously confirming there is a hyperlink somewhere?

At least in the Weev case, people could take his IRC logs out of context as well as argue the fact that it was plainly obvious that the server was misconfigured and he was seeing content that he should not. But getting a response when incrementing an integer, generally speaking, does not mean you are viewing something unintended for you. When you are downloading public documents, it would be entirely unreasonable to assume that the material was non-public.

Also, take a step back to really think about what you are advocating. Is society better off by ruining this kid’s life? It blows my mind that someone even remotely technical can think this particular case is a good use of the justice system, or can even compare it to someone snooping around their neighborhood and trying their doors.

Re:Teenager facing prison for downloading unsecured files fr... by aceofspades19 on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @04:37AM (#16856543)
I agree, even if we assume what he did is illegal, its sort of like impounding someone's car and arresting them for dangerous driving because they went 1 mph over the speed limit. We don't do that even though it is technically illegal because that would not be a good use of the legal resources we have, which are finite. Same thing if we arrested and imprisoned everyone who fiddled with url parameter, it would be a waste of finite resources. Probably a phone call saying 'Hey can you please stop doing that would suffice in most cases.
Re:Teenager facing prison for downloading unsecured files fr... by walrus01 on Monday April 16, 2018 @10:15PM (#16854891)
Supporting your examples, in previous GIS work I have iterated through a series of public URLs with file ID integers in them (Corresponding with individual document IDs) to batch-mirror whole public GIS datasets from government websites. This was on a public server, no http authentication or username/password, just something that was presented with a terrible javascript user interface only designed to retrieve one file at a time, slowly. Exactly the sort of thing that got this guy arrested.
Re:Teenager facing prison for downloading unsecured files fr... by roywiggins on Monday April 16, 2018 @07:45PM (#16854053)
If you are just iterating through an archive, it would be impossible to know whether foo.php?id=24530 was linked to anywhere or not. It seems crazy to criminalize this sort of thing.
Re:Teenager facing prison for downloading unsecured files fr... by kodablah on Monday April 16, 2018 @09:22PM (#16854615)
> obviously not intended to be publicly accessible, or else it would have been reachable from some public-facing portion of the site.

Doesn't seem obvious to me. So now I have to check for a specific anchor to a URL to see if a URL is considered publicly accessible?

Re:Teenager facing prison for downloading unsecured files fr... by doomtop on Monday April 16, 2018 @08:24PM (#16854301)
But it was, precisely, reachable from a public-facing portion of the site!
Re:Teenager facing prison for downloading unsecured files fr... by EpicEng on Monday April 16, 2018 @07:31PM (#16853953)
>I don't lock my car, and often not my house either. I don't think that means you should be able to snoop around and see what interests you. Websites are private property

Here's a better analogy; you put up a "yard sale" sign in your front yard, fill the driveway with property, and then call the police on the first person who shows up claiming they are trespassing.

Re:Teenager facing prison for downloading unsecured files fr... by rayiner on Monday April 16, 2018 @07:39PM (#16854010)
When you put up a "yard sale" sign, you're conveying what is called an "implied license" to access the property. The scope of a trespasser's right to access a property is limited to what a reasonable person would consider to be granted by the license. A reasonable person would assume that a "yard sale" sign grants a license to access the yard on which the sign is posted, but not to go around to the back yard and peek into the basement windows.

A public web page is no different. A reasonable person would not assume that content you can only get to by editing a URL manually is supposed to be accessible to the public. A typical person would not even know that you can do that. Those typical people are the ones that get to set the rules, not hackers.

Re:Teenager facing prison for downloading unsecured files fr... by jolmg on Monday April 16, 2018 @08:00PM (#16854155)
If a url is not supposed to be edited by people, address bars wouldn't be text fields. It wasn't long ago that one of the primary ways of going to a website or even a particular webpage was entering it manually in the address bar as opposed to going to google first.

Websites are not only meant to be accessed by humans either. Are you telling me that bots should employ human reason to guess what should be viewed or not?

I'm not even sure what you're proposing. The web has always been public space.

If a website puts a link to a resource that is not protected by authentication means, and hides it behind some other html element, or styles it with javascript to a white font on a white background, or does something else that is similarly difficult for a script to guess is not viewable by humans on some subset of browsers, is it now breaking the law because obviously the url was not viewable on any webpage?

How about if someone takes the url, and doesn't view it, but posts it on some other website with high traffic. Now all people that click the link have broken the law?

Re:Teenager facing prison for downloading unsecured files fr... by gowld on Monday April 16, 2018 @07:49PM (#16854078)
You are old enough to remember a world before Google, yes? I typed http://DeltaAirlines.com into my browser's address bar, looking for info about Delta Airlines. I didn't click a link from another website or copy it from a brochure. Why is that trespassing?
Re:Teenager facing prison for downloading unsecured files fr... by loup-vaillant on Monday April 16, 2018 @08:04PM (#16854172)
> A reasonable person would not assume that content you can only get to by editing a URL manually is supposed to be accessible to the public.

A reasonable person could totally use crawlers like DownThemAll, and fail to notice that some URLs they request are not, in fact, accessible by clicking through a web page. That's different from accessing something you know isn't accessible by mainstream means.

I did that several time to download some porn. The process is simple: search for whatever I'm interested in in a search engine, click on whatever image looks interesting, see if I the URL has numbers I can modify to access nearby images (they will have hopefully the same theme, or even depict the same scene).

The first URL was clearly publicly available. I got it legitimately through a search engine, or by clicking around. How am I supposed to guess that some of the others are off limits?

Re:Teenager facing prison for downloading unsecured files fr... by c22 on Monday April 16, 2018 @09:07PM (#16854533)
Is it more likely that editing a url is a reasonable thing to do or that literally every other person in this thread is an unreasonable person?
Re:Teenager facing prison for downloading unsecured files fr... by reificator on Monday April 16, 2018 @07:33PM (#16853967)
I assume you also don't park your car in an area where millions of people can access it in the same second with no cost to them.

It's really not a reasonable comparison.

Re:Teenager facing prison for downloading unsecured files fr... by gowld on Monday April 16, 2018 @07:49PM (#16854081)
> with no cost to them.

or to the owner of the car!

Re:Teenager facing prison for downloading unsecured files fr... by jessaustin on Monday April 16, 2018 @10:16PM (#16854899)
I never locked my car, back when I was driving a shitty old Cavalier. That seems to say something about how government views its citizens' data.