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Re:Tesla issues strongest statement yet blaming driver for d... by kbutler on Wednesday April 11, 2018 @08:55PM (#16817165)
How about all those martyred by prolonging our current manual driving system for the years band decades it will take to roll out separate infrastructure for vehicles no one owns because they can't drive them anywhere?

I think we need to keep the human driver in control, but have the computers learning through that constant, immediate feedback.

And get rid of misleading marketing and fatal user experience design errors.

Re:Tesla issues strongest statement yet blaming driver for d... by buvanshak on Wednesday April 11, 2018 @10:00PM (#16817423)
>but have the computers learning through that constant, immediate feedback.

I don't know what is stopping them from simulating everything inside a computer.

Record the input from all the sensors when a car equipped sensors is driven through real roads by a human driver. Replay the sensor input, with enough random variations and let the algorithms train on it.

Continue adding to the library of sensor data by making the sensor car by driving it through more and more real life roads and in real life situations. Keep feeding the ever increasing library of sensor data to the algorithm, safely inside a computer.

Re:Tesla issues strongest statement yet blaming driver for d... by kolpa on Wednesday April 11, 2018 @10:17PM (#16817483)
>I don't know what is stopping them from simulating everything inside a computer.

Obviously they've already tried that, and it doesn't work. The map is not the territory.

In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is.

Re:Tesla issues strongest statement yet blaming driver for d... by buvanshak on Wednesday April 11, 2018 @11:03PM (#16817662)
Not following you here. What do you mean by "The map is not the territory."..

What I mean is that. Do not "teach" the thing in real time. Instead collect the sensor data from the cars a human is driving (and also collect the human input also), and train the thing on it, safely inside the lab.

You say, they have done it already. But I am asking if they have done it enough. And if that is so, how come the accidents such as these are possible, when the situation is pretty out of a text book in basic driving?

Re:Tesla issues strongest statement yet blaming driver for d... by osrec on Wednesday April 11, 2018 @10:01PM (#16817426)
I don't think it'll take years to update our infrastructure. For example, we could embed beacons into catseyes to make it easier to know where the road boundaries are etc. Also, we could make sections of the highway available with the new infrastructure piece by piece. It is just as progressive as your suggestion, but the problem becomes a whole lot easier to solve when you target change towards infrastructure as well as the car itself.
Re:Tesla issues strongest statement yet blaming driver for d... by kbutler on Thursday April 12, 2018 @12:00AM (#16817876)
These will take a lane from regular traffic and give it to rich people who buy an expensive car.

It also will not ensure exclusion of manual vehicles, so it won't create the exclusion necessary for the predictable driving environment.

Re:Tesla issues strongest statement yet blaming driver for d... by pbhjpbhj on Thursday April 12, 2018 @10:02AM (#16820985)
In think it could work, that lane can be the same as is used for autonomous lorries (that potentially benefit everyone if they deliver cheaper goods).
Re:Tesla issues strongest statement yet blaming driver for d... by osrec on Thursday April 12, 2018 @07:28AM (#16819711)
Not really, the road would still be fully usable by a standard car.
Re:Tesla issues strongest statement yet blaming driver for d... by kbutler on Saturday April 14, 2018 @12:48PM (#16838128)
"I just think we need to stop trying to merge self driving cars into a road system designed for human operators. Moreover, we should not be "beta testing" our self driving cars on roads with human operators."

Sounds like requiring exclusive access - I apologize if that was a misinterpretation.

If you have human and automated drivers in the same roads, the computers have to be able to cope with the vagaries of human drivers.

How can you then get away from '"beta testing" our self driving cars on roads with human operators' if that is their deployment environment?