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Re:The Programming Talent Myth (2015) by mywittyname on Wednesday April 11, 2018 @01:02PM (#16813167)
> We wouldn't judge a carpenter on e.g. his/her ability to use a saw

We absolutely should because it's a fundamental aspect of doing their job. The difference between me and a professional carpenter is literally the ability to use tools effectively to build an item. I know whether to use a dovetail or dowel joint as well as any professional, but I guarantee the pro will achieve a better finish in much less time.

It's like theoretical CS vs. real-world programming. It's good to know sorting strategies and whatnot, but knowing how to use the tools is what gets stuff done.

Re:The Programming Talent Myth (2015) by humanrebar on Wednesday April 11, 2018 @02:41PM (#16814114)
> We absolutely should because it's a fundamental aspect of doing their job.

The problem is that we don't pay engineers to crank out pre-designed classes in a specified language with a specific editor. We do pay day laborers to go dig a certain trench over there with these particular shovels and picks.

Software engineering is so much more open-ended. We're paying people to "go help the team make the yard more water efficient".

In other words, if we had more well-defined roles for "coder" versus "engineer" versus "architect", it might make sense to test on the ability to use tools, but in general people in this thread aren't making that kind of distinction because the tech culture in general doesn't make a clear distinction. Otherwise, we'd have "coder" job interviews that didn't include algorithms or open-ended problem solving questions.

Re:The Programming Talent Myth (2015) by EpicEng on Thursday April 12, 2018 @10:31AM (#16821285)
>We absolutely should because it's a fundamental aspect of doing their job

A rather trivially learned part of their job. It has little bearing on their ability to build a beautiful cabinet.

>The difference between me and a professional carpenter is literally the ability to use tools effectively to build an item

It's much more than that. How about Michelangelo? Do you think the only difference between you and him is that he's had more practice with a chisel? Doubtful.

>It's like theoretical CS vs. real-world programming. It's good to know sorting strategies and whatnot, but knowing how to use the tools is what gets stuff done.

This is the lone of thinking that leads hiring managers to build teams of mediocre devs with a lot of buzzwords in their CV. I don't care so much that you know e.g. C#, I care that you are a great problem solver. If you have that part down I'm fine with investing a little time into you so that you can learn C#, ASP.NET, whatever. The latter bit is easy.