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Re:Another Tesla on autopilot steers towards a barrier by jacquesm on Friday April 06, 2018 @11:19AM (#16773879)
The whole problem seems to me that to get a 90% solution for a self driving vehicle is now no longer hard. The remaining 10% is super hard and the degree to which the present day solutions tend to get these wrong is worrisome enough that if the quality doesn't jump up very quickly the whole self driving car thing could end up in an AI winter all of its own making. And that would be a real loss.

This is not a field where 'move fast and break stuff' is a mantra worth anything at all, the stuff that is broken are people's lives and as such you'd expect a far more conservative attitude, akin to what we see in Aerospace and medical equipment software development practices.

But instead barely tested software gets released via over-the-air updates and it's anybody's guess what you'll be running the next time you turn the key.

I agree with you that the software should have been able to detect that something was wrong either way, either it was already halfway in the wrong lane or it was heading to be halfway in the wrong lane, a situation that should not have passed without the car at least alerting the driver.

And from what we have seen in the video it just gave one inferred situation priority over the rest and that particular one happened to be dead wrong about it's interpretation of the model.

Re:Another Tesla on autopilot steers towards a barrier by ansible on Friday April 06, 2018 @03:31PM (#16776596)
I agree with all you've said.

One of my concerns with self-driving systems is that they don't have a good model of the world they are operating in. Yes, sure, they build up 3-D models using multiple sensor types, and react to that accordingly, oftentimes with faster reflexes than a human.

However, consider this situation with pedestrians A and B, while driving down a street, approaching an intersection.

Pedestrian A, on the edge of the sidewalk, is faced away from the street, looking at his phone. The chances of him suddenly stepping out in front of my car are exactly 0.0%.

Pedestrian B, on the edge of the sidewalk, is leaning slightly towards the street, and is looking anxiously down the street (the wrong way). The chances of B suddenly stepping out is high, and the chances of B not seeing my car are very high (because B is being stupid/careless, or else is used to UK traffic patterns).

I, as a human, will react to those situations differently, preemptively slowing down if I recognize a situation like with Pedestrian B. Autonomous driving systems will treat both situations exactly the same.

From everything I've read about so far, current driving systems have no way of distinguishing between those two specific situations, or dealing with the myriad of other similar issues that can occur on our streets.

Re:Another Tesla on autopilot steers towards a barrier by rtx on Friday April 06, 2018 @04:07PM (#16776914)
Another similar situation where autopilot may fail. It sees a ball rolling across the street. Will it slow down, because a child maybe chasing the ball.
Re:Another Tesla on autopilot steers towards a barrier by seaurchin on Friday April 06, 2018 @05:38PM (#16777674)
I used to contemplate similar situations. For example, a stationary person on a bike at the top of a steep driveway that's perpendicular to the vehicle's driving direction. But after seeing the video of the Arizona incident I stopped. It's too soon to consider these corner cases when some systems on the public road can't even slow down for a person in front of the fucking vehicle.
Re:Another Tesla on autopilot steers towards a barrier by galdosdi on Saturday April 07, 2018 @10:11AM (#16780769)
That's because waymo is playing chess while uber plays checkers. For waymo, these corner cases probably matter. Uber is not actually pursuing self driving tech, they are pretending to do so to defraud investors. Their troubles aren't representative therefore.
Re:Another Tesla on autopilot steers towards a barrier by volkl48 on Friday April 06, 2018 @05:03PM (#16777413)
The saying in those fields is "the rules are written in blood". The Therac-25 (a medical device) is taught in practically every CS Ethics class for having changed software development practices for such things.

The cynic in me thinks self-driving will require the same, the rules and conservative practices will only come after a bunch of highly publicized, avoidable failures that leave their own trail of blood.

Re:Another Tesla on autopilot steers towards a barrier by jacquesm on Friday April 06, 2018 @06:05PM (#16777893)
I wonder how the public would respond if the person killed in that Uber accident a while ago was a kid on a bicycle and how the response will be when/if a Tesla on autopilot plows into a schoolbus (a situation they seem to have problems with is stationary objects partially in a lane).
Re:Another Tesla on autopilot steers towards a barrier by Piskvorrr on Friday April 06, 2018 @06:06PM (#16777901)
If there's anything left to be conservative upon. Current climate of "drive fast and kill people" might wipe out the field via PR.
Re:Another Tesla on autopilot steers towards a barrier by TarpitCarnivore on Friday April 06, 2018 @04:04PM (#16776884)
This is where my chief complaint with Musk comes in. His whole bravado as a salesman is probably having a longer term impact on AI for cars. He keeps pushing this auto pilot when it's not.
Re:Another Tesla on autopilot steers towards a barrier by bra-ket on Friday April 06, 2018 @03:48PM (#16776748)
regardless of the lane recognition it has to at least detect the obstacle in front of it, it's something that a basic collision avoidance system can do