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Re:One of Estonia's first "e-residents" explains what it means by stonogo on Tuesday April 03, 2018 @08:18PM (#16750727)
"Merit" is not a quantifiable characteristic. All your plan would do is give the power to the people who define "merit."

It's like you're advocating for correctpersonocracy. Put another way, literally every government that has ever existed would call itself a meritocracy.

The actual word 'meritocracy' comes from a book that warned about the dangers of creating easily-gamed draconian systems that needlessly exclude people from the process of governing. I wish as many people would read the book as use the word.

Re:One of Estonia's first "e-residents" explains what it means by mpweiher on Wednesday April 04, 2018 @02:36AM (#16752513)
> "Merit" is not a quantifiable characteristic.

It's not? What are SAT scores, school grades, entrance exams for the civil service, election results, income etc.?

I would say that these are all ways for society to quantify merit.

Did you mean perfectly accurately?

> literally every government that has ever existed would call itself a meritocracy.

Nope. Most governments used to call themselves monarchies and would have bristled at the idea that they'd have to somehow demonstrate merit to justify their power. Their power was justified by heredity, and in fact, I'd think that if you suggested that they needed to do demonstrate their merit, you might end up short a head.

> The book

Yep. Have to admit I didn't read it, but I did read what the author wrote:

"It is good sense to appoint individual people to jobs on their merit."

What he objects to is the following:

"It is the opposite [of good] when those who are judged to have merit of a particular kind harden into a new social class without room in it for others."

So merit-based selection: good. Ossified class system: bad. I think Trump, May and Johnson are ample evidence that we leave plenty of room for the incompetent to get a chance at the reins, even if we generally try to organize ourselves by merit.

And so exactly the fact that we can't quantify merit with perfect accuracy, and have multiple domains, helps us avoid the problems Young mentions, though here as elsewhere we aren't at all perfect.

Re:One of Estonia's first "e-residents" explains what it means by naeemtee on Wednesday April 04, 2018 @08:29AM (#16754047)
Your comment just proved the other guys point. You name drop a few politicians for not having "merit" because you disagree with them.
Re:One of Estonia's first "e-residents" explains what it means by mpweiher on Wednesday April 04, 2018 @09:31AM (#16754474)
Nope. There are plenty of politicians I disagree with that are competent. Kissinger, for example.

These are incompetent.

Re:One of Estonia's first "e-residents" explains what it means by naeemtee on Thursday April 12, 2018 @03:14PM (#16824008)
Lol. Kissinger. Right.
Re:One of Estonia's first "e-residents" explains what it means by ffreire on Tuesday April 03, 2018 @08:42PM (#16750839)
And by book you are referring to "The Rise of Meritocracy"?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meritocracy#Etymology

Re:One of Estonia's first "e-residents" explains what it means by tome on Wednesday April 04, 2018 @03:44AM (#16752823)
Undoubtedly
Re:One of Estonia's first "e-residents" explains what it means by fineline on Tuesday April 03, 2018 @10:32PM (#16751421)
I haven't read it (yet) but it was described and exerted in a recent BBC podcast on voting patterns in Brexit/Trump elections:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09tcvp4

Some interesting people interviewed and points raised.

Re:One of Estonia's first "e-residents" explains what it means by tome on Wednesday April 04, 2018 @03:40AM (#16752805)
> exerted

"exhorted", perhaps?

Re:One of Estonia's first "e-residents" explains what it means by fineline on Wednesday April 04, 2018 @11:46PM (#16761598)
Thanks, I actually meant "excerpted". Passages from the book were included in the podcast. I lazily used a phonetic spelling without checking.
Re:One of Estonia's first "e-residents" explains what it means by njarboe on Tuesday April 03, 2018 @10:44PM (#16751474)
I think I like a new phrase/idea I heard from Jordan Peterson recently. "Hierarchies of competency". This seems to me like a better idea of how society can arrange itself. Society needs to be able to have different people have different amounts of power in different domains, but those hierarchies don't have to be built on violence and raw power. Maybe "hierarchies of competency" could be a stable, positive way to organize at least some parts of society.
Re:One of Estonia's first "e-residents" explains what it means by marcus_holmes on Tuesday April 03, 2018 @11:08PM (#16751558)
Competency in what? The best person to make decisions may not be the best person to talk about those decisions in front of a camera, or the best person to inspire confidence in those decisions in a nation of (by definition) less-competent people who (again by definition) would have made the decision differently.
Re:One of Estonia's first "e-residents" explains what it means by mpweiher on Wednesday April 04, 2018 @02:17AM (#16752428)
Yep, any way you have of measuring competency is going to be inadequate and subject to gaming.

And it may be exactly the fact that you can't measure it accurately that makes it not "harden into a new social class without room in it for others."

Re:One of Estonia's first "e-residents" explains what it means by njarboe on Wednesday April 04, 2018 @11:15AM (#16755510)
Well, for example, take the medical profession. There are of course many problems with how doctors are trained and licensed. The AMA might do well with a shake up. But in America you are not getting a license to practice without demonstrating a huge amount of skill, dedication, and competence. Your cousin who is already a doctor doesn't just get to say, "You are in". Or you just have to pay some large amount of money to the right person.
Re:One of Estonia's first "e-residents" explains what it means by marcus_holmes on Thursday April 05, 2018 @09:22AM (#16764622)
um.. it costs a LOT of money to become a doctor in America.
Re:One of Estonia's first "e-residents" explains what it means by rimliu on Wednesday April 04, 2018 @02:14AM (#16752412)
Do you really want dumb people in the process of governing? I think we had enough already.