News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:U.S. gunmaker Remington files for bankruptcy by dustinmoorenet on Monday March 26, 2018 @12:22PM (#16680015)
I think the gun industry has a problem with a product that doesn't really go bad and isn't able to expand much. Sure, bullets need to be replaced, but it is really hard to make a gun that wears out quickly but that also is not a safety hazard for the shooter. At a certain point people will have enough guns that will occasionally be used. And the more guns you have, the less any one gun will wear out. Also, the hot guns on the market now are what? AR-15? That gun was developed in the 1960s. Sure there is new tech in accessories, but `the gun` can't really improve, because bigger and faster are limited by physics and laws.
Re:U.S. gunmaker Remington files for bankruptcy by michaelt on Monday March 26, 2018 @12:54PM (#16680356)
Sure, but loads of businesses have this property.

I don't need to replace my wrenches or my bed or my kitchen knives. Manufacturers stay in business by keeping their operations modest, so they can stay in business with the sales from people changing interests, population growth, and occasional replacements.

Re:U.S. gunmaker Remington files for bankruptcy by dustinmoorenet on Monday March 26, 2018 @01:07PM (#16680482)
* Tools wear and break from constant daily use (only war gets that kind of use out of guns)

* Beds frames can be made cheaply and if they break, you can still put your mattress on the floor (bullets don't work well if just thrown)

* You need to sharpen knives pretty often, which is wearing them out, but it is true that good knives will last a good while. (But when was the last time you heard of a knife lobbying group pushing to prevent laws from limiting the knife industry's ability to sell product)

Re:U.S. gunmaker Remington files for bankruptcy by bmelton on Monday March 26, 2018 @11:25PM (#16684948)
Worth noting that while firearms are fairly durable goods, they do have a lot of wear when they're used regularly.

Trigger pins can wiggle loose. Butt stocks can crack. Springs lose their springiness. Barrels wear down with normal use, and that wear is accelerated to corrosion if they aren't cared for properly. Receivers will crack if used enough.

Sure. That gun in your uncle's safe will probably still shoot fine in 50 years (assuming it was cleaned before it was put away), but competition shooters replace their arms, or major parts in their guns every couple of years or so.

Re:U.S. gunmaker Remington files for bankruptcy by gnode on Monday March 26, 2018 @01:33PM (#16680744)
Plenty of tools are used very infrequently, and make up a large proportion of the market. Most households probably have a screwdriver, a wrench, a spade, etc. which rarely get used. Yet people keep buying them.
Re:U.S. gunmaker Remington files for bankruptcy by michaelt on Monday March 26, 2018 @03:08PM (#16681560)
Wrenches will break if you abuse them - but so will guns.

I don't think either industry depends on such breakage to stay in business.

Re:U.S. gunmaker Remington files for bankruptcy by 987412365 on Monday March 26, 2018 @12:47PM (#16680267)
These are complex machines with many moving parts, parts wear out all the time, there is a large after market for custom parts too...

I'm sure someone more knowledgeable can chronicle the use of polymer frames in firearms, which maybe really caught on in the 1990s?

Failure to improve on old designs seems like a good thing to me as a consumer, it's preferable to churn

Re:U.S. gunmaker Remington files for bankruptcy by dustinmoorenet on Monday March 26, 2018 @12:59PM (#16680405)
The gun just doesn't fit as a product that can be made obsolete by future designs. Most guns were designed for the military to be field serviceable. Any attempt to make a cheap gun will just push consumers back to the established platforms. So the gun industry can't be run like other consumer industries, as we have seen with this bankruptcy. Investors came in thinking they could bleed an established brand of it's value, but evidently, consumers noticed and moved on.
Re:U.S. gunmaker Remington files for bankruptcy by banned1 on Monday March 26, 2018 @12:31PM (#16680104)
But you don't have to get another one because you need it. You get another one because you can. It's just like getting a new iPhone.
Re:U.S. gunmaker Remington files for bankruptcy by usrusr on Monday March 26, 2018 @01:22PM (#16680642)
I'd say it is exactly not like the new iPhone: repeated private gun buying happens for completing a collection (which never happens), not for upgrading to the latest keynote filler feature. When IPhone enthusiasts keep their discarded phones in some drawer it's more a matter of laziness than of building an arsenal.
Re:U.S. gunmaker Remington files for bankruptcy by banned1 on Monday March 26, 2018 @01:53PM (#16680932)
This is a fair point. I guess it would be more like a car enthusiast. Regardless, both cars and iPhones kill more people than guns, but those facts are not as convenient to some groups of people.
Re:U.S. gunmaker Remington files for bankruptcy by leereeves on Monday March 26, 2018 @02:02PM (#16681002)
> iPhones kill more people than guns

How?

Re:U.S. gunmaker Remington files for bankruptcy by smsm42 on Monday March 26, 2018 @02:50PM (#16681419)
I would guess the intent was to imply it's due to distracted driving (texting while driving or being on call and getting sufficiently distracted to cause an accident). Though laying it on the doorstep of iPhone specifically is not fair, nothing in iPhone makes it more prone to this than any other smartphone or even dumbphone model.

I also don't know whether the statistics about how many fatal accidents were caused by distracted driving exists (it's kinda hard to ask a person who died in a car accident whether they were texting before or not...) or is reliable. But given the ubiquity of both driving and cellphones, I wouldn't be surprised if there existed some data pointing to the way the parent post suggested. I wouldn't also make any far-reaching conclusions from it as the issues involved are of quite different nature, and the data, as I pointed, is probably very dirty anyway.

Re:U.S. gunmaker Remington files for bankruptcy by banned1 on Monday March 26, 2018 @03:58PM (#16681972)
The facts are here:

https://www.nhtsa.gov/risky-driving/distracted-driving

I’m just trying to point out how silly some point of views are in the current state of national discussions.

From the point of view of a 2A supporter, people are attempting to take away what is a RIGHT, while conveniently forgetting to address what is effectively a modern convenience (it is not a RIGHT to own an iPhone) that is factually more impactful on the presumed end goal.

But it makes for better TV ratings and yet another polarizing dividing issue (which is not, as there are high school kids trying to advocate for guns in schools, whose voices are being drowned out by the media and the kids “on the other side”

Imagine what it would be like if we had a march to take away the right to love the person you love, because some people who love like you do get more frequently sick of some disease.

Re:U.S. gunmaker Remington files for bankruptcy by asmithmd1 on Monday March 26, 2018 @12:38PM (#16680176)
They are still making new guns, take a look at this heinous thing:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FN_P90

The only possible use for this is calling lots of people quickly at close range.

I became aware of this model and cartridge when I used Google Maps to see how many gun shops are near Parkland High (3 within walking distance.) One of the shops specializes in these weapons. If the shooter could have afforded it, I would guess he would have bought this.

Re:U.S. gunmaker Remington files for bankruptcy by nordsieck on Monday March 26, 2018 @12:53PM (#16680341)
> The only possible use for this [FN P90] is calling lots of people quickly at close range.

This is absolutely not true.

The point of the P90 is to be a compact carbine for troops in cramped quarters (think tank crew) with the capability to penetrate soft body armor.

The way it achieves this is with a high speed, low caliber pistol round and full auto operation. Even then, it is only marginally effective. Take away the full auto part (civilian use) and I can't think of a single reason someone would use it, except that it looks "cool".

To reiterate, the purpose of this gun is not to be effective at killing. It is to be as small as possible while still being marginally effective (in the military configuration).

Re:U.S. gunmaker Remington files for bankruptcy by yial on Monday March 26, 2018 @12:58PM (#16680385)
The P90 in the US is largely restricted to military and LEO, there is a variant, the PS90 with lower capacity (30) and longer barrel that is available. the 5.7x28 round though isn't as effective in many ways at /killing/ people as other rounds. It's more intended to wound, and increase attrition.

If you want to see something more affordable, that is probably equally as, if not more deadly, look at "AR" pistols (chambered in 5.56x45) instead of the P90. (Or PS90).

Or, the SIG MPX, which while expensive, is also available.

Though, it sounds from your comment, that you and I are on very different terms in opinion.

Re:U.S. gunmaker Remington files for bankruptcy by al3xnull on Monday March 26, 2018 @01:02PM (#16680439)
Deleted mine as this is exactly what I was trying to say.
Re:U.S. gunmaker Remington files for bankruptcy by gnode on Monday March 26, 2018 @01:47PM (#16680883)
I think this comment highlights exactly why legislation like the Federal Assault Weapons Ban was made. Anti-gun people generally don't know much about firearms, and can be appeased by the banning of cosmetic features, like folding stocks or rifles with a pistol grip, without notably affecting constitutional rights, as the potency of the weapon is not affected.
Re:U.S. gunmaker Remington files for bankruptcy by asmithmd1 on Monday March 26, 2018 @02:03PM (#16681015)
I am a former gun owner and think assault weapons legislation based on pistol grips doesn't accomplish anything.

Yes, why not base legislation on the power of a weapon measured as, say, ft*lbs delivered in 20 seconds. A 50 round drum magazine on a Ruger 10/22 rifle - no problem. But on an AR-15 style rifle - not allowed.

Re:U.S. gunmaker Remington files for bankruptcy by elsonrodriguez on Monday March 26, 2018 @12:55PM (#16680362)
The effectiveness of the P90 has been called into question due to its cartridge, especially if the cartridge is used in the civilian semi-auto version of the P90, the PS90.

I think the primary use for the military full-auto version is VIP duty, where the scenario would be exactly as you describe: killing lots of threats quickly in close proximity (supposedly with minimal collateral damage due to the design of the bullet).

The primary use for the civilian PS90 is to show your friends how much you hate money by turning a questionable boutique round into noise.

Re:U.S. gunmaker Remington files for bankruptcy by gnarcoregrizz on Monday March 26, 2018 @01:13PM (#16680540)
released 1991... it's an almost 30 year old design. i remember first seeing the gun in the n64 game goldeneye. it looks like a close-range gun because it is (though they do make a longer-barrel version). however, it's for armored military targets. a 9mm round would be more effective against killing unarmored targets and has a longer range

it's a pretty interesting gun though, not necessarily because of the bullpup design, but because of the type of round it shoots. the 5.7 round is pretty unique - it's small but ultra high velocity and was designed to penetrate light body armor but is not very good at killing. anyway, it's unlikely someone would use one of these to shoot up a school or whatever.... they are really expensive (and the ammo is also very expensive and rare). as far as a vegas style shooting, the 5.7 round isn't long range because of its small size - it's seriously a tiny bullet. moreover, i'm pretty sure the fn five-seven (basically the complementary pistol) is illegal to carry in most places because of the armor pen - cops don't like them

Re:U.S. gunmaker Remington files for bankruptcy by bmelton on Monday March 26, 2018 @12:49PM (#16680297)
The bullpup format has been around since the early 1950s, and that particular form factor has been pretty normal since the 70s.

I don't disagree with your point that arms manufacturers are still producing new models, but that isn't a terribly good illustration of 'new', especially since the arm you linked has been in production for ~30 years.

Re:U.S. gunmaker Remington files for bankruptcy by tudelo on Monday March 26, 2018 @12:45PM (#16680248)
Do you not think anyone recreationally shoots an FN P90?
Re:U.S. gunmaker Remington files for bankruptcy by dpratt on Monday March 26, 2018 @01:00PM (#16680414)
Considering the fact that it's an incredibly expensive rifle and that a quick FBI crime stats search shows no usage of it, and I cannot remember ever hearing about it being used in a crime, there's a high likelihood that nearly every owner of it uses it recreationally.

How many Porsche 911 Turbos or Audi R8s are used as getaway cars for bank robberies?

Re:U.S. gunmaker Remington files for bankruptcy by dustinmoorenet on Monday March 26, 2018 @12:50PM (#16680306)
That gun was made in 1986, over 30 years ago. My whole point is we are seeing an industry that needs growth but has no where to go. If they can get lots of people angry and go buy guns, then they will, but after a certain point, the angry people have all the guns they could ever use. And anytime an old collector dies, their guns get put on the market. Pawn shops are full of guns.
Re:U.S. gunmaker Remington files for bankruptcy by novembermike on Monday March 26, 2018 @12:54PM (#16680355)
Militaries have been moving away from that gun because it just isn't that lethal.
Re:U.S. gunmaker Remington files for bankruptcy by DFHippie on Monday March 26, 2018 @12:59PM (#16680408)
I found this bit particularly chilling in the context of high school shooters:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FN_P90#Ammunition

Re:U.S. gunmaker Remington files for bankruptcy by LyndsySimon on Monday March 26, 2018 @01:18PM (#16680593)
I don't understand - what about it is "chilling"?

The 5.7x28mm would be a terrible choice for someone wanting to kill a large number of people. It's reason for existence is a tradeoff between the number of rounds one can effectively carry, armor penetration, and terminal performance. In short, it's designed for use in compact full-auto firearms - PDWs ("Person Defense Weapons"). That class of firearm has not been readily available in the US since 1934, and the P90 has never been available.

Re:U.S. gunmaker Remington files for bankruptcy by asmithmd1 on Monday March 26, 2018 @02:05PM (#16681028)
This gave me pause:

"The 5.7×28mm SS190 has a muzzle velocity of roughly 716 m/s (2,350 ft/s, Mach 2) and can penetrate the NATO CRISAT vest or a Level IIIA Kevlar vest at a range of 200m"

Re:U.S. gunmaker Remington files for bankruptcy by novembermike on Monday March 26, 2018 @06:38PM (#16683306)
I'm not sure what's scary there. It's got a low velocity for a lightweight round and penetrates light armor. As a trade off it doesn't have great terminal performance against people.