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Re:Facebook was warned about app permissions in 2011 by seabird on Sunday March 25, 2018 @03:19AM (#16671152)
>which is because it did not have a catastrophic outcome at the time

The problem with that statement is that you believe it was a catastrophic outcome. For the first time in history, media and new technology is able to instantly tell you if the president has so much as sneezed while the sitting president is a (highly controversial) Republican. Obama was considered a nightmare scenario for the American right, and if you listened to the right outlets, you heard every single one of Obama's missteps. Every poor decision, embarrassing association, or undelivered promise was constantly paraded as grounds for impeachment, but social media and what many consider "neutral" news sources have a noticeable progressive bent, and the Obama administration got the benefit of the doubt more often than not.

The Obama administration deported more undocumented immigrants than every past president minus HW Bush combined. The Obama administration killed over 3700 people (over 300 of which were civilians) in drone strikes. In that regard, Obama reportedly said that it "Turns out I’m really good at killing people. Didn’t know that was gonna be a strong suit of mine." Attorney General Eric Holder was the first US cabinet member to be held in contempt of Congress, and Obama exercised executive privilege to support Holder's decision to withhold documents pertaining to Fast and Furious.

Most US citizens who actively use social media don't know those things (among many other controversies) happened, but they sure as shit know that "Donald Trump gets two scoops of ice cream", and constantly beat the dead "covfefe" horse; you can swipe right on Snapchat or Twitter to that social media company's curated news page and instantly hear every single slip-up and hot take that Trump has. This notion of a "catastrophic outcome" largely exists because for the first time, news outlets are at odds with the administration in the age of mass media.

Re:Facebook was warned about app permissions in 2011 by zzzeek on Sunday March 25, 2018 @10:22AM (#16672283)
The drone strikes we're widely reported, everyone knew about them and the American right was completely in favor of them. They were also in favor of the deportations which we liberals are also well aware of. Fast and furious was widely reported. You've basically listed all the major disasters of Obama's presidency (the day to day bullshit listed on talk radio is just that) and there is simply no comparison to what is happening now and the things you refer to were also widely reported by the media.

It is of course a rote and entirely predictable exercise to take my statement that "this is a catastrophe", turn it around and say, "well Obama was a catastrophe for the right". I'm here to say that this is a false equivalency and the right has lost its mind. The conservative view of Obama is equivalent to the liberal view of Bush, that's a lot more reasonable. But the right has not has their "liberal Trump", and it is perfectly fine that they never will.

Re:Facebook was warned about app permissions in 2011 by downandout on Saturday March 24, 2018 @10:30PM (#16670325)
because it did not have a catastrophic outcome at that time. This time it did.

That is your opinion, and you're entitled to it. But do you not detect even a whiff of hypocrisy in this whole thing? It should have been portrayed as the terrible thing that it is today back when Obama did it. That is what I have an issue with.

Re:Facebook was warned about app permissions in 2011 by grzm on Saturday March 24, 2018 @10:35PM (#16670340)
Which is more important to you, pointing out hypocrisy in others or taking advantage of an increase in the number of people who share you belief that this is something that should be fixed? I can understand possibly be worried that they may be "fair-weather friends" or some such, but by focusing on the common ground rather than on infighting, you may help build a non-partisan coalition that might effect real change. Yeah, I can understand the frustration, but quibbling amongst ourselves only serves a common enemy. Let's use the momentum to move forward.
Re:Facebook was warned about app permissions in 2011 by downandout on Saturday March 24, 2018 @11:03PM (#16670445)
I’d welcome a non-partisan coalition that would fight the bias of the press, which led to this and many other issues. Unfortunately, such a group will never form because most of the press either endorses or excuses everything done by the left, and castigates everything done by the right. No more clear example of that exists than this situation.

Therefore, the left has no incentive to fight the bias of the press, because it favors their side on nearly every issue. The ironic part is that by making the misuse of Facebook data acceptable (even celebrated) when Obama did it, the press may have inadvertently helped Trump get elected years later. They’re upset now, but they’re just trying to put the genie that they unleashed back in the bottle. We reap what we sow.

Re:Facebook was warned about app permissions in 2011 by grzm on Saturday March 24, 2018 @11:09PM (#16670475)
So, the answer is to continue reinforcing the divisiveness and polarization, giving up because it's others that are causing the issue? That's one of the ways we got to the point we're at. Sounds defeatist to me, and something I'm not willing to do. I encourage you not to, either.
Re:Facebook was warned about app permissions in 2011 by downandout on Saturday March 24, 2018 @11:18PM (#16670502)
I’m an Independent. I find it harder and harder to stay in the middle because the views of everyone else - on both sides - are so extreme. It would be wonderful to get rid of divisiveness and polarization. But in the imperfect world in which we live, it seems that the only way to even try to bring a little sanity back to things is to point out hypocrisy wherever I see it, and hope those that are practicing it feel ridiculous enough when they are exposed that they change their ways.
Re:Facebook was warned about app permissions in 2011 by grzm on Saturday March 24, 2018 @11:38PM (#16670581)
Where you stand on the (multi-axis) political spectrum doesn't matter if the actions you're taking continue to divide people and work against your goals. Pointing out hypocrisy in others may feel good and righteous in the moment, but puts people on the defensive and they stop listening to you: it's a remarkably poor way to get someone to change their behavior. People don't respond well if you're intent is to make them feel ridiculous. It's just a part of typical human psychology, and one you're working against if your goal is to actually make a change.

Does yelling at your computer make it work better? (Perhaps an increasingly poor example in the age where voice commands are becoming popular.) Or figuring out what's wrong and doing what needs to be done to fix it? Gotta work with the facts on the ground, not how you think it should be. And maybe by doing so, you can move what is towards what should be.

Re:Facebook was warned about app permissions in 2011 by Covzire on Sunday March 25, 2018 @12:35AM (#16670791)
I find the idea that you shouldn't point out hypocrisy because it might trigger divisiveness, divisive. It stinks of a desire to shut down debate because it's not going the way you want.
Re:Facebook was warned about app permissions in 2011 by grzm on Sunday March 25, 2018 @12:55AM (#16670835)
What's your goal? What do you actually want to accomplish in the end? I'm asking in all seriousness. And following up, how do you plan to accomplish that goal?

In the case of working for user data privacy, we're working against companies that are benefiting from the data they collect and their lobbyists, as well as people who aren't aware of the situation and often only see the benefits of the apps they're using. And those people cross many demographic and political lines. I don't think user privacy is a partisan issue. It's going to be an uphill battle. You think pointing out all of the differences and disagreements of those who don't agree with you, all of the inconsistencies you see in their positions is going to help? I sincerely don't think so.

The point isn't that pointing out hypocrisy is wrong, it's that it gets in the way of your goals.

If it's more important to you to point out those inconsistencies than improve the user privacy situation, I think you have your priorities wrong. If you think you can only remedy the user privacy situation by first correcting their inconsistencies, I think that's wrong-headed and doomed to failure on both counts. But you're certainly entitled to your opinion and free to disregard mine.

Re:Facebook was warned about app permissions in 2011 by zzzeek on Saturday March 24, 2018 @10:56PM (#16670421)
no not really, here is an example: the World Trade Center was bombed in 1993. It was serious, there were six deaths, but it wasn't a catastrophe. I was living in NYC at that time, and for me, I realized there were terrorists trying to blow up parts of New York City and quite frankly it scared the crap out of me from that point on how insecure things were, how easy it would be for the WTC (a building I worked in a few times) to be attacked again. But this was not a very widespread sentiment. The problem (terrorists targeting NYC) was there, but the catastrophic outcome was not.

Then of course terrorists from roughly the same organization tried again on the same building eight years later and it was the largest attack in US history by orders of magnitude. Terrorism proceeded to become the key societal and political issue pretty much for a whole generation.

The problem was there for a long time, the hazard was there for a long time, but it's only when we get the catastrophic outcome; e.g. the Uber car actually killed someone, the plane actually crashed, the WTC was actually destroyed, it's largely rational that that is when lots of people care. There's nothing unusual or hypocritical about it.

You might not think the outcome of this election was catastrophic but the reporters who cover the government and the white house do. They know the norms and customs that have been in place for many decades and they see that they've been ripped to shreds in just a little over a year. They know this is a catastrophe and they are rightfully trying to shine a light on every possible thing that we can get at to both patch the situation and hopefully prevent it from happening again.