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Re:Restricted by YouTube, Gun Enthusiasts Are Taking Their V... by cm2187 on Friday March 23, 2018 @10:49AM (#16658697)
Don't think it's a first amendment issue, but the printing press in question is offering to print everyone else's pamphlets for free, but turns down pamphlets that are not compliant with its liberal agenda. I think it is certainly entitled to do so, but I have seen many, even on HN, denying that the Silicon Valley is progressively becoming hostile to non liberal opinions. This seems to be a good illustration.

And this liberal agenda is not a monopoly of the Silicon Valley either. Citi recently did something similar, announcing that it will cease to make loans or provide payment services to businesses who do not comply with its views on gun control. Which I find more problematic than youtube given the regulatory monopoly and lack of competition in the banking industry.

Re:Restricted by YouTube, Gun Enthusiasts Are Taking Their V... by cptskippy on Friday March 23, 2018 @11:12AM (#16658940)
It has absolutely nothing to do with a "liberal agenda", this is capitalism plain and simple. There is nothing more to it and anyone who says it's a conspiracy by <insert group/> is off their rocker.

YouTube exists to make money. It makes money through advertisers. If advertisers don't want to use YouTube then YouTube loses money.

Re:Restricted by YouTube, Gun Enthusiasts Are Taking Their V... by kodablah on Friday March 23, 2018 @11:52AM (#16659307)
So they would turn down no advertiser and will capitulate to any advertiser's wishes if it made them more money? Of course not, so it's not capitalism plain and simple. To say it is ignores that humans can make decisions and changes the discussion point. It might be that the advertisers are the ones pushing a certain agenda. It might not. But don't kill the discussion about how things slant by saying it's only about money.
Re:Restricted by YouTube, Gun Enthusiasts Are Taking Their V... by Spivak on Friday March 23, 2018 @12:03PM (#16659445)
Just because a company would turn down a short-term gain doesn't mean they aren't profit focused. Any popular site that runs ads is overflowing with offers to run sketchy ads for big money but actually running them would only hurt their brand in the long run. This doesn't necessarily mean that site is editorializing.
Re:Restricted by YouTube, Gun Enthusiasts Are Taking Their V... by kodablah on Friday March 23, 2018 @12:11PM (#16659543)
Sure. And I'm saying that just because they are profit focused doesn't mean it's only about profits and there aren't human decisions involved which is what I took GP's comment as saying.
Re:Restricted by YouTube, Gun Enthusiasts Are Taking Their V... by verylittlemeat on Saturday March 24, 2018 @06:52AM (#16665948)
How is this "capitalism plain and simple." Youtube and reddit are only banning this content because of new regulation passed by the government.
Re:Restricted by YouTube, Gun Enthusiasts Are Taking Their V... by dsfyu404ed on Friday March 23, 2018 @11:57AM (#16659379)
If this was in direct conflict with the politics of the average YouTube employee they'd be dragging their feet about it.

Politics/agenda are certainly involved.

Re:Restricted by YouTube, Gun Enthusiasts Are Taking Their V... by jbigelow76 on Friday March 23, 2018 @11:02AM (#16658838)
lack of competition in the banking industry

I can think of 11 banks off the top of my head, some are big banks, a couple credit unions, a brokerage with banking services like Schwab. If I googled for "local banks" I would get a lot more. What is the lack of competition you are referring to?

Re:Restricted by YouTube, Gun Enthusiasts Are Taking Their V... by WhompingWindows on Friday March 23, 2018 @11:10AM (#16658920)
It's not just about "liberal opinions", though, is it? Guns are undeniably a public health issue, with 30,000 "death by firearms" in the USA each year, it's on the same level as traffic fatalities and slightly below the opioid deaths. When you have a category of devices responsible for 30,000 deaths, we move beyond mere opinions, mere he said/she said, into a moral territory where it is incumbent on those in power to do something.

Would you fault Google for removing videos promoting unsafe driving practices that endanger lives, or promotional materials or sponsored videos or ads for cigarette brands, or videos demonstrating the means by which fentanyl can be mixed in with heroin? I'm not saying these are perfect analogies, but rather where do we expect massive companies to draw the line when it comes to distributing potentially harmful content?

Does SV/Google have the right answer to reduce gun deaths? I don't know, but do I fault them for trying something when deaths are occurring minute by minute? Certainly not, something must be done to curb the tragic number of deaths we are shrugging off.

Re:Restricted by YouTube, Gun Enthusiasts Are Taking Their V... by alethiophile on Friday March 23, 2018 @12:14PM (#16659575)
Most "death by firearms" are suicides, and suicides mostly don't need instructional videos. The rest are mostly murders, and there's nothing to suggest that gun videos on Youtube make people more or less likely to murder.

There's no good reason to think that this step by Youtube will help with the "public health" side of the issue at all; it's fairly transparently about an animus against guns qua guns.

Re:Restricted by YouTube, Gun Enthusiasts Are Taking Their V... by gscott on Friday March 23, 2018 @12:13PM (#16659570)
Problem: U.S. vehicle deaths topped 40,000 in 2017. Solution: Let's ban car videos

Problem: Johns Hopkins patient safety experts have calculated that more than 250,000 deaths per year are due to medical error in the U.S. Solution: Videos about medical procedures? Get rid' of em!

and so on. Only allow cat videos.

Re:Restricted by YouTube, Gun Enthusiasts Are Taking Their V... by WhompingWindows on Wednesday March 28, 2018 @09:32AM (#16697475)
What about videos on how to install bump stocks? Would you support allowing those to remain up on YT?
Re:Restricted by YouTube, Gun Enthusiasts Are Taking Their V... by cat199 on Friday March 23, 2018 @11:19AM (#16659018)
> Would you fault Google for removing videos promoting unsafe driving practices that endanger lives, or promotional materials or sponsored videos or ads for cigarette brands, or videos demonstrating the means by which fentanyl can be mixed in with heroin?

yes, yes and yes.

Re:Restricted by YouTube, Gun Enthusiasts Are Taking Their V... by WhompingWindows on Wednesday March 28, 2018 @09:32AM (#16697484)
So absolute freedom of speech, even promotion of very dangerous products and practices, should be enforced onto private company's products?
Re:Restricted by YouTube, Gun Enthusiasts Are Taking Their V... by leot on Friday March 23, 2018 @11:07AM (#16658885)
"Liberal agenda" <= really?

I don't know what you mean by that. Please explain.

(EDIT: Legitimately don't understand the downvotes here.)

Re:Restricted by YouTube, Gun Enthusiasts Are Taking Their V... by reitanqild on Friday March 23, 2018 @01:00PM (#16660164)
That the big tech companiea are liberal seems to be one of the things most "conservatives" and "liberals" on HN agree on :-)

As for why it was downvoted I guess a number of people on both sides found it to be plain false and maybe also someone though it was a deliberate misrepresentation of the situation.

Re:Restricted by YouTube, Gun Enthusiasts Are Taking Their V... by leot on Friday March 23, 2018 @01:37PM (#16660589)
First, I think the entire "liberal" v. "conservative" distinction does far more harm than good to productive public conversation. It causes people to pay more attention to where ideas come from rather than to the ideas themselves.

Second, it is a kind of ad hominem fallacy to claim that there exists some kind of unspecified (and no doubt nefarious) "liberal agenda" to which advocates subscribe. Especially given that 97% of the US supports universal background checks, how can the o.p. be so sure that this is the product of a "liberal agenda" and not instead a sensible response to an epidemic-level problem?

When people refuse to describe the entities they claim to exist (again: where and what is this "liberal agenda"?) there's good reason to be skeptical of both the people and the entities. Often it's scary packaging for something that's reasonable if you take the time to look at it.

Re:Restricted by YouTube, Gun Enthusiasts Are Taking Their V... by reitanqild on Friday March 23, 2018 @02:43PM (#16661326)
> First, I think the entire "liberal" v. "conservative" distinction does far more harm than good to productive public conversation. It causes people to pay more attention to where ideas come from rather than to the ideas themselves.

You might have noticed already but in case anyone else didn't: yes, I partly agree with you on this (and I also to some degree think this behaviour is childish.)

> Second, it is a kind of ad hominem fallacy to claim that there exists some kind of unspecified (and no doubt nefarious) "liberal agenda" to which advocates subscribe.

It seems to me a majority of HN thinks Youtube is even more "liberal".

> Especially given that 97% of the US supports universal background checks, how can the o.p. be so sure that this is the product of a "liberal agenda" and not instead a sensible response to an epidemic-level problem?

Many of us (me included) would like more background checks etc.

The problem for me is that a number of people see background checks only as a first small step towards banning guns.

I think there is still room in USA for a European style collaboration between hunters, sports shooters and police.

That would be a win-win. But as long as everyone with a brain can see a ratchet I guess enthusiasm will be limited in the NRA/2A camp.

Re:Restricted by YouTube, Gun Enthusiasts Are Taking Their V... by dragonwriter on Friday March 23, 2018 @01:32PM (#16660534)
> That the big tech companiea are liberal seems to be one of the things most "conservatives" and "liberals" on HN agree on

The big tech companies (in terms of direction from the top) are mostly center-right neoliberal in orientation, straddling the US partisan divide (Microsoft has historically been attached to the Republican Party, which paid off big when the Bush Administration took over from the Clinton Administration at the end of their antitrust trial, most of the rest of the big firms have been closer to the neoliberal wing of the Democratic Party.)