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Re:The Four Levels of Social Entrapment by narrator on Sunday September 05, 2010 @09:41PM (#1665600)
Conversation Zen Levels from lowest zen to highest:

Level 1: The conversation does not involve talking about your job. This is only acceptable in business network situations. If you are not at a trade show, business event, in an interview or at work you shouldn't talk about work. This is the most pathetic type of small talk, as it immediately puts you in a social class/stereotype bucket.

Level 2: The conversation does not involve talking about where you live, or whether you are going to school and where. Unless you are exactly the same age, you are not likely to gain any useful information from this, except to put people into a social class or stereotype bucket, which is detrimental to conversation.

Level 3: The conversation does not involve talking about any topics that have to do with people or activities outside of the immediate first-hand knowledge of the individuals involved in the conversation. E.g no talk about sports, celebrities, world politics, etc. This kind of talk usually results in nothing positive that you haven't had 100 or more conversations about already and serves to bucketize, not in so far as social class is concerned but in other aspects. Sometimes the other person will have specialized knowledge about a topic, for instance you may have read the same book or may be into the same niche topic, and this is acceptable conversation for this zen level but usually conversation falls into overly mainstream categories that tend to categorize and stereotype. It's really really hard to have a common niche interest unless you're at an event catering to that interest so best not to bother.

Level 4: The conversation does not involve any conversation about anything taking place in the past or outside of the immediate physical area. This only usually happen as part of a shared activity and may be difficult or impossible on a plane or similar circumstances where there is little in the way of shared experience in the immediate physical area.

Figure out what Zen level you want to communicate with people at and then just don't talk unless you can achieve that zen level. Ok I made that all up right in this comment box. The main idea is to avoid any sort of conversation that would bucketize the other person into a particular social class or stereotype for as long as possible or bore them with uninteresting chatter in order to have any more fulfilling interaction. What do you guys think?

Re:The Four Levels of Social Entrapment by bastardlee on Monday September 06, 2010 @08:27AM (#1666508)
Level 0: The cellphone conversation

Maybe this is a little bold to be stating on a tech-oriented blog, but I dread having a conversation about cellphones. I don't care what kind of cellphone you have. I don't care that you care what kind of cellphone I have. I don't want to talk about what kind of apps I use, or the new features, or the latest goddam iPhone.

Its probably because the conversations are usually so freaking trite and predictable, and 99% of the time no one has anything interesting to say about their cellphones, my cellphone, or what kind of cellphone they want and deserve. It's also a reminder of the consumer culture we live in and it makes me feel like a yuppie when I'm fighting my hardest to avoid becoming one.

That all said, I inevitably end up in them, and a part of me dies every time, even as I smile and laugh and talk about the great speech recognition on my 3GS and how AT&T sucks.

Re:The Four Levels of Social Entrapment by sz on Sunday September 05, 2010 @11:03PM (#1665724)
What does this have to do with Zen?
Re:The Four Levels of Social Entrapment by swombat on Monday September 06, 2010 @08:12AM (#1666497)
Nothing.

Did you notice his line at the end, "Ok I made that all up right in this comment box." ? That kind of implies that the Zen labels were not to be taken seriously.

Re:The Four Levels of Social Entrapment by revicon on Monday September 06, 2010 @12:54AM (#1665905)
"...and then just don't talk unless you can achieve that zen level..."

Heh, let me know when you figure out how to pull this off.

Re:The Four Levels of Social Entrapment by narrator on Monday September 06, 2010 @01:24AM (#1665954)
In non-dating recreational situations you can actually pull off level 4 if you're disciplined. For instance, if you go to a sailing class. Only talk about sailing and learning sailing. Put all your brain into it and keep out of lower level talk. People will find you very mysterious and interesting because you didn't lay all your cards on the table so they could just put you in a bucket.
Re:The Four Levels of Social Entrapment by loewenskind on Monday September 06, 2010 @06:00AM (#1666354)
Personally I would find a person who did this really boring (no apparent life outside of the activity).
Re:The Four Levels of Social Entrapment by narrator on Monday September 06, 2010 @02:00PM (#1667086)
Think about the boring guy at the sailing class. Later on you find out he's a doctor, or a builder, or a fraud investigator or a republican or likes watching hockey or went to college at Stanford. What if he didn't tell you any of that until you had known him for a couple of weeks or even months during the course of that sailing class vs if he had told you that all up front?

I usually find that nobody's eyes light up and get excited when I tell them I work as a software developer. I'm now a nerd, or too smart, or boring, or a member of the "technical professional" social class.

If I had some really exciting job like being a movie star, I'd be stuck having to repeat answers to the same frequently asked questions every time I met someone new. The idea of the zen levels is to get to know other people first as humans before socially categorizing them. It's about showing them your personality instead of telling them all your credentials up front.

Re:The Four Levels of Social Entrapment by loewenskind on Tuesday September 07, 2010 @11:45AM (#1669134)
That's a fair goal, but I think the strict adherence to only certain conversation topics wont come off as mysterious. I think it will come off as creepy or boring. For me, being mysterious is being involved in any conversation in a way that everyone enjoys and only later realize that you didn't reveal anything about yourself in it.
Re:The Four Levels of Social Entrapment by philwelch on Monday September 06, 2010 @03:45PM (#1667277)
But when would he tell you those things if he kept at Level 4 all the time? When you just happened to run into him at a hockey match or a Republican meeting?
Re:The Four Levels of Social Entrapment by hugh3 on Monday September 06, 2010 @05:57PM (#1667493)
Doesn't this just reduce to "talk about the weather"? Because if you're not going to talk about anything that isn't in the immediate physical area and isn't in the past, you're reduced to "nice weather today, isn't it?" or perhaps "See that lamp over there? I like that lamp. I don't like that carpet though."
Re:The Four Levels of Social Entrapment by narrator on Monday September 06, 2010 @07:16PM (#1667600)
Level 3 is fine, if you're at a dinner party or something like that with people you don't know and you just have to talk to someone because it's boring otherwise. Usually social situations work better though if there's some sort of shared activity or purpose to the event.

Think about how people meet all their best friends in college and in high school. At these stages of one's life people haven't been split off into their social segments yet and have plenty to talk about because they are helping each other study for exams, or playing on sports teams together or working on other practical projects like organizing clandestine weekend keggers. It's in these situations that people really get to know each other, instead of just this social filtering process that usually passes for conversation.

Re:The Four Levels of Social Entrapment by TheSOB88 on Sunday September 05, 2010 @10:34PM (#1665679)
Can you try not using double negatives like "does not involve ... activities outside first-hand knowledge"? It's really hard to read, especially since I'm tired.
Re:The Four Levels of Social Entrapment by AssumeTheBest on Monday September 06, 2010 @09:31PM (#1667772)
Oh come on, can't you find something better to complain about in that huge wall of text?