Re:Continuing frequency deviation in the Continental Europea...
by blattimwind on Wednesday March 07, 2018 @07:30AM
(#16535915)
Synchronous machines with no net shaft power are sometimes used to supply reactive power, but these also contribute a coupled rotating mass. (edit: Apparently English people call these "synchronous condenser")
The question of "how can we build a large and stable grid without thousands of tons of rotating mass?" is an area of very active research I've been told.
Re:Continuing frequency deviation in the Continental Europea...
by consp on Wednesday March 07, 2018 @08:26AM
(#16536166)
Aren't the large Tesla battery farms in Australia being used for that purpose? [1] Basically they use batteries and control systems to correct instead of a rotating mass. I'm not sure about the ability to push several hundreds of MW into the system but at least it gets something done.
Re:Continuing frequency deviation in the Continental Europea...
by blattimwind on Wednesday March 07, 2018 @08:58AM
(#16536322)
The rotor in a synchronous machine is coupled magnetically to the grid (basically a spring-mass system where the spring is a rotary field); there is virtually no reaction time in this mechanism.
(It should be noted that other motors, including asynchronous machines, contribute as well)
AIUI the HPR has reaction times on the order of a few seconds.
Re:Continuing frequency deviation in the Continental Europea...
by toomuchtodo on Wednesday March 07, 2018 @09:23AM
(#16536505)
HPR reaction time is milliseconds for frequency response. It reacts faster than the grid operator’s data logger resolution.
Re:Continuing frequency deviation in the Continental Europea...
by beojan on Wednesday March 07, 2018 @06:54AM
(#16535802)
> I wouldn't wonder if there were already plans for building large rotating masses with motors on them that are kept at network frequency, with the motors switching over to serve as generators when the frequency drops.
Flywheels? Yes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flywheel_energy_storage#Grid_e....
Re:Continuing frequency deviation in the Continental Europea...
by Piskvorrr on Wednesday March 07, 2018 @06:51AM
(#16535792)
Well...that's essentially the pumped-storage model, except it also takes tens of seconds to spool up: http://virtualniprohlidky.cez.cz/cez-dlouhe-strane-aj/
And very interesting thoughts come up, especially when you add newer developments like non-rotational-mass-based power sources (solar power, batteries, stuff like that) into the mix. Because at the moment with the high number of traditional steam-powered generators, the rotating mass of the turbines and their inertia serve as a kind of buffer against sudden swings in electricity demand with an ultra-quick response time of "basically no time". As a second buffer stage we have the steam supplies in the plants, which can be quickly accessed just by opening a valve, thus the response time is non-zero, but still quite short.
Now replace all those generators with some other power sources without those inherent balancing capabilities (that probably weren't explicitly built into them, but that just happen to be there because of their construction) and you'll get a network that is much more vulnerable to sudden changes on the demand side. Now, explicit mechanisms of storing energy in a way that can be accessed in literally zero time need to be introduced into the network, just to keep it stable and to provide other regulation mechanisms (of which a lot of them also have to be re-thought) with enough time to do their job.
I wouldn't wonder if there were already plans for building large rotating masses with motors on them that are kept at network frequency, with the motors switching over to serve as generators when the frequency drops.