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Re:Ex-Google recruiter: I was fired because I resisted “ille... by RandomCSGeek on Friday March 02, 2018 @09:22AM (#16501511)
One thing I never understand is how people claim to support both equality and pro-minority/anti-majority actions at the same time. It's like saying you support democracy and kim jong un.
Re:Ex-Google recruiter: I was fired because I resisted “ille... by dragonwriter on Friday March 02, 2018 @09:24AM (#16501521)
> One thing I never understand is how people claim to support both equality and pro-minority/anti-majority actions at the same time.

If you believe that the status quo is systematically biased, you cannot meanignfully support equality without supporting action to correct the bias.

Re:Ex-Google recruiter: I was fired because I resisted “ille... by RandomCSGeek on Friday March 02, 2018 @09:41AM (#16501671)
There are two ways to nullify a problem. 1. Solve it 2. Create another problem in equal magnitude and opposite direction.

Unfortunately, most countries/organisations seem to prefer second one, because it's easier and shows effect earlier, although over long period of time, it's going to be the worse one.

Re:Ex-Google recruiter: I was fired because I resisted “ille... by shimon on Friday March 02, 2018 @10:00AM (#16501864)
Do you believe it feasible for Google, or even a theoretical consortium of powerful companies like Google, to solve the gender, race, and socioeconomic inequalities in access to education and other resources that enable someone to work at such companies?

If yes, how?

If no, do you think it's better for them to attempt to compensate in a way that is feasible, or to do nothing?

Re:Ex-Google recruiter: I was fired because I resisted “ille... by RandomCSGeek on Friday March 02, 2018 @10:15AM (#16502026)
They should solve the problems, instead of hiding the symptoms. They need to encourage women to enter tech field. This could be done at school level. They could ensure that women don't face harrasement at work. They could help women find jobs after a gap due to childbirth.

Find why women don't take admissions in STEM as much as men do. If there isn't any human-made reason, then let it be. Don't force equal numbers down the throat of deserving candidates.

What is currently going on in the world isn't going to solve the problem of race/gender based problems.

Re:Ex-Google recruiter: I was fired because I resisted “ille... by shimon on Friday March 02, 2018 @12:11PM (#16503454)
I think all these suggestions could help. But it seems highly unlikely that a single company (even a powerful one like Google) can categorically solve the problem through these methods.

The reason I asked about your view of feasibility here is that you seem to be arguing that Google (and others with diversity preference in hiring) are making the wrong choice. But the alternatives you seem to favor are not a real choice Google could execute. It's not like they thought about massively altering the perception and delivery of STEM education to all kids, figured out an effective affordable method to do that, and then just did diversity hiring instead because the VP of HR felt like it.

You could certainly make the argument that there's a better choice they could make, or that their apparent choices are doing more harm than good. But right now you're comparing against an impossible straw-man so it's hard to take the argument seriously.

Re:Ex-Google recruiter: I was fired because I resisted “ille... by johnnyanmac on Friday March 02, 2018 @03:40PM (#16505482)
>Do you believe it feasible for Google, or even a theoretical consortium of powerful companies like Google, to solve the gender, race, and socioeconomic inequalities in access to education and other resources that enable someone to work at such companies?

certainly. These companies have funds that can compete with entire country's governments. They can definitely do outreach at the elementary level and provide funds to entire towns, encourage an environment of tech, and more if they wished to.

Do they? no. mostly because these are long term solutions that do nothing in the now outside of a small PR boost. Doing this on a major scale may also cost them profits for a while, which would not reflect well on their stocks.

Re:Ex-Google recruiter: I was fired because I resisted “ille... by ergo14 on Friday March 02, 2018 @11:35AM (#16502985)
I know in my country when my city was founded, the industrial moguls invested and created schools to improve their workforce education (and thats for manufacture workers). I think that would be the right direction to take.
Re:Ex-Google recruiter: I was fired because I resisted “ille... by jptoor on Friday March 02, 2018 @10:04AM (#16501911)
> although over long period of time, it's going to be the worse one.

Why do you believe that? Are there specific examples you're thinking of? How do you know it's too far?

Re:Ex-Google recruiter: I was fired because I resisted “ille... by RandomCSGeek on Friday March 02, 2018 @10:19AM (#16502066)
Look what happened in India. The brahmin were once the richest group and at the top of socio-economic ladder. Today, they are the poorest ones, at least in the state of Maharashtra. A major reason being that brahmins don't get job/education reservation or caste based scholarships as many others do.
Re:Ex-Google recruiter: I was fired because I resisted “ille... by rtx on Friday March 02, 2018 @11:18AM (#16502777)
That would be unique to Maharashtra due to Peshwa rule. Everywhere else Brahmin were mostly poor. My family is from Bihar and Brahmin caste. My grand parents lost four out of five children due to poverty. Luckily my grand Father got a job as coal miner and the families situation improved.

Nirdhan Brahmin has been a popular motif in Indian mythology and epics. Brahmins became victim of same kind of propaganda as happenings with Asians right now in SV.

Re:Ex-Google recruiter: I was fired because I resisted “ille... by jamiegreen on Friday March 02, 2018 @09:46AM (#16501713)
Isn't that just adding different biases?
Re:Ex-Google recruiter: I was fired because I resisted “ille... by 013a on Friday March 02, 2018 @11:08AM (#16502663)
Equality of Opportunity versus Equality of Outcome, with a small helping of cognitive dissonance. People who favor expediency tend to favor Equality of Outcome. Its the same line of thinking as "zero tolerance" policies in schools; there's some outcome or metric we want to optimize for, and we want the quickest solution to that outcome without considering more expensive or harder solutions.

Generally a push for expediency comes from external pressure, not internal standards, culture, or morals. When I see stories like this, my first thought is that Google doesn't actually care about diversity. What they care about is a negative social stigma around a lack of diversity.

Alternatively, or maybe additionally, it shows a distinct lack of character development and exposure to the complexity of the real world on the part of those in decision making positions. This is a very difficult one to convince people they're victim to; its essentially telling someone that they're too inexperienced to hold their position, but not by any quantifiable metric, yet they've had no problem meeting the metrics they've been assigned. They're doing their job by every metric they have, but the problem arises in the validity of the metrics themselves and the sustainability of the methods they use.

Its the same reason why Engineering teams have architects; you need low-level "expedient" people to implement the tactics of a solution, but you also need strategy at the top to set non-expedient policy and ensure that both the metrics the expedient people work toward are the right ones, and that the methods they use to reach them are sustainable.

Re:Ex-Google recruiter: I was fired because I resisted “ille... by raldi on Friday March 02, 2018 @09:41AM (#16501673)
If you're trying to to cook a PH-balanced dish, and it's currently too acidic, you'll discriminate in favor of adding high-PH ingredients, no?
Re:Ex-Google recruiter: I was fired because I resisted “ille... by RandomCSGeek on Friday March 02, 2018 @09:50AM (#16501752)
But if had 90% acid and 10% base in your storage, would you throw away most of the acid to get a neutral solution?
Re:Ex-Google recruiter: I was fired because I resisted “ille... by raldi on Friday March 02, 2018 @09:55AM (#16501815)
What's the real-world correlation to that analogy?
Re:Ex-Google recruiter: I was fired because I resisted “ille... by RandomCSGeek on Friday March 02, 2018 @10:01AM (#16501874)
If you have 90% asian male/white male candidates, and 10% women/minority candidates, would you still remove most of asian/white male candidates to bring equality?
Re:Ex-Google recruiter: I was fired because I resisted “ille... by raldi on Friday March 02, 2018 @10:08AM (#16501956)
Ah. To answer your previous question, no. Just like if my soup is too watery, I won't add more water, even if I have an effectively infinite supply on tap.
Re:Ex-Google recruiter: I was fired because I resisted “ille... by friedButter on Friday March 02, 2018 @02:52PM (#16505048)
They support equality of outcome, not equality of opportunity