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Re:China using big data to detain people before crime is com... by JumpCrisscross on Wednesday February 28, 2018 @04:08PM (#16486938)
Has it had an effect on crime rates? If so, this is interesting. It means crime is predictable based on the inputs the system is measuring. It also means the Chinese AI effort is more fruitful than I expected it to be. If this is reducing crime, then we have a discussion of trade-offs. That is interesting, and potentially nuanced.

If it's the latter, however, this is not interesting and there is no reasonable discussion to be had.

Re:China using big data to detain people before crime is com... by SerLava on Wednesday February 28, 2018 @04:24PM (#16487115)
>if this is reducing crimes

Every apprehension under this program is a crime by any definition other than the arbitrary declaration of an illegitimate regime.

It would be absolutely astonishing if the people apprehended were likely to illegally kidnap and hold at least 1 citizen in their basement for at least the length of time that these people are detained.

Thus it can pretty much only increase crime.

Re:China using big data to detain people before crime is com... by mc32 on Wednesday February 28, 2018 @04:31PM (#16487197)
Not necessarily. If they are capturing these people because they will have committed a crime and that in and of itself is crime then its not reducing crime.

It's possible that once enough people who on balance might commit a crime are arrested or impeded, then crime will indeed decrease.

Re:China using big data to detain people before crime is com... by rayalez on Wednesday February 28, 2018 @04:40PM (#16487296)
I think you've missed the point.

Even if this system works, people who have not committed a crime (yet) are innocent.

Taking an innocent person, and improsoning him against his will is a crime, pretty extreme one.

Even if this system works really well, it's hard to imagine that the crimes it prevents can be more extreme than the crimes it commits.

Re:China using big data to detain people before crime is com... by JumpCrisscross on Wednesday February 28, 2018 @05:04PM (#16487547)
> Taking an innocent person, and improsoning him against his will is a crime

Every criminal justice system has to balance (1) the risk of convicting the innocent, (2) the risk of letting the true crime-committer commit additional crimes (due to not being caught or caught later), and (3) the risk of being abused. We don’t like pre-crime convictions because we believe risks 1 and 3 outweigh any gains in 2. A culture with a different balance of risks, however, could come to a different but consistent conclusion. I don’t like that conclusion. But it’s at least debatable. Putting political enemies in jail is not.

Re:China using big data to detain people before crime is com... by nemothekid on Wednesday February 28, 2018 @04:27PM (#16487151)
>* Has it had an effect on crime rates? If so, this is interesting*

I don't think so. You could also likely randomly detain people, and the fear you would cause may also reduce crime rates. That doesn't make it right.

Re:China using big data to detain people before crime is com... by neolefty on Wednesday February 28, 2018 @04:23PM (#16487110)
To rephrase: You could define whether it is being used corruptly by measuring whether it reduces crime.

This is a loaded research question, of course, because it's studying something that we find abhorrent: Prosecuting people for crimes they haven't actually committed.

Scientifically it's super interesting. Socially and ethically it's a minefield.

Re:China using big data to detain people before crime is com... by smsm42 on Wednesday February 28, 2018 @11:07PM (#16489596)
> Has it had an effect on crime rates?

This is probably impossible to know, since totalitarian regimes are known for providing completely fake statistics - and it's usually not like they have one set of numbers (real), but publish another (fake), it's that the whole pipeline is hopelessly corrupt so nobody knows the real numbers. USSR was notoriously plagued by this problem - not only for crime, but also for other things like economical statistics.

Re:China using big data to detain people before crime is com... by visarga on Wednesday February 28, 2018 @05:12PM (#16487614)
Have you every lived under a totalitarian regime that uses intense surveillance?

This system is causing a chilling effect on creativity, differentiation and individualism. It forces people to hide their real thoughts and live a life of constant pretence/lies. It makes the safe-space (the creative-space) to shrink to the interior of one's head. It destroys the ability of population to protest and thus participate in the political life of the country.

Re:China using big data to detain people before crime is com... by neuro_imager on Wednesday February 28, 2018 @09:53PM (#16489300)
You do realize this is the same regime that detains political enemies under bogus charges, assassinates them and sells their organs on the black market?