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Re:Steven Pinker makes case for human progress in ‘Enlighten... by Stefan-H on Wednesday February 28, 2018 @02:54PM (#16486196)
Can one have a misplaced faith in evidence? Once there is evidence for something, it is not merely faith - faith is conviction without evidence. The whole point of the scientific process is to re-evaluate conclusions when new evidence is presented. I suppose historians may look back and find that some of our scientific beliefs were held in spite of evidence to the contrary, or that evidence was not sought out to disprove those beliefs, but I do not see how a full discrediting of data and statistics would one day happen.
Re:Steven Pinker makes case for human progress in ‘Enlighten... by foldr on Wednesday February 28, 2018 @02:58PM (#16486224)
>Can one have a misplaced faith in evidence?

That's a semantic quibble which isn't really relevant to the point that Harrison is making in the rest of the quoted paragraph.

But yes, you can have misplaced faith in e.g. null hypothesis significance testing and other methods of data collection and analysis common in some of the social sciences.

Re:Steven Pinker makes case for human progress in ‘Enlighten... by Stefan-H on Wednesday February 28, 2018 @03:09PM (#16486329)
My point was not that you can't have misplaced faith. But rather can you have misplaced faith in the notion of evidenced based conclusions. If your conclusions are based on evidence, then it isn't faith. It may still be wrong, but it isn't faith.
Re:Steven Pinker makes case for human progress in ‘Enlighten... by foldr on Wednesday February 28, 2018 @03:26PM (#16486488)
Oh, that's just a pun on 'faith'. The 'faith' in 'misplaced faith' isn't religious faith.
Re:Steven Pinker makes case for human progress in ‘Enlighten... by Stefan-H on Wednesday February 28, 2018 @03:37PM (#16486622)
Can you elaborate on what you mean? What definition of "faith" do you think is meant here?
Re:Steven Pinker makes case for human progress in ‘Enlighten... by foldr on Wednesday February 28, 2018 @03:50PM (#16486770)
The ordinary meaning of the word 'faith', as in e.g. 'John has a misplaced faith in his own abilities'.
Re:Steven Pinker makes case for human progress in ‘Enlighten... by Stefan-H on Wednesday February 28, 2018 @04:01PM (#16486863)
So belief without evidence. Do you see how it is non-sensical to then say "misplaced faith in evidence"?
Re:Steven Pinker makes case for human progress in ‘Enlighten... by bobthechef on Wednesday February 28, 2018 @04:36PM (#16487243)
That's not the definition of faith, really. Faith can mean belief and it can mean trust (often the former is an expression of the latter). What you mean is blind faith, which is pejorative. When it comes to religion (Chistianity specifically), the recorded accounts of Jesus' miracles and his resurrection function as historical evidence of his divinity.

What you describe is more like fideism.

Re:Steven Pinker makes case for human progress in ‘Enlighten... by foldr on Wednesday February 28, 2018 @04:15PM (#16487018)
Faith doesn't mean 'belief without evidence'. That's a Richard Dawkins talking point, not anything you'll find in a dictionary. John could have excellent evidence for his own abilities, and yet his faith in those abilities could turn out to be misplaced.
Re:Steven Pinker makes case for human progress in ‘Enlighten... by Stefan-H on Wednesday February 28, 2018 @04:57PM (#16487471)
"Not anything you will find in a dictionary" is a terrible bar to base something off of: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/faith Definition 2b. http://www.dictionary.com/browse/faith definition 2.

Using faith and belief interchangeably seems disingenuous and ignores the religious context that is part of faith. Faith implies a lack of compromise, a concreteness, and unwillingness to change. Using that term to describe evidence based science, and the belief that evidence ought to be presented before a belief is held is an attempt to reduce science to dogma.

Re:Steven Pinker makes case for human progress in ‘Enlighten... by Noos on Wednesday February 28, 2018 @04:09PM (#16486954)
I don't know if they mean evidence in a specific sense. I think they mean misplaced faith in data in a meta sense, giving it more power to affect decisions than it should. The idea that everything can be solved by commissioning a study, acquiring data, and analyzing it. Or that "the data" becomes an unquestioning authority that you invoke.

edit: the word "Scientism" is probably closer to the meaning here; science and rationality as a belief system in itself, as opposed to tools that help us understand physical processes. Faith in these tools to supply meaning and create a better society, often to absurd levels.

Re:Steven Pinker makes case for human progress in ‘Enlighten... by defgeneric on Wednesday February 28, 2018 @03:16PM (#16486395)
The argument isn't about facts. It's about the meaning of facts, and specifically their meaning for us.
Re:Steven Pinker makes case for human progress in ‘Enlighten... by jsky_goog on Wednesday February 28, 2018 @02:57PM (#16486217)
I think an example of "misplaced faith in evidence" would be along the lines of equating correlation with causation based on evidence.
Re:Steven Pinker makes case for human progress in ‘Enlighten... by Stefan-H on Wednesday February 28, 2018 @03:25PM (#16486482)
I disagree with that as an example of a "misplaced faith in evidence". That is coming to the wrong conclusion due to committing a false cause logical fallacy. Drawing the wrong conclusion should not be confused with a "misplaced faith in evidence". It seems that the religious really want to use the term faith in regards to science so as to imply that scientists "stoop to their level". That argument is seemingly often made that scientists have a blind faith in science. Certainly it happens that a scientist will hold onto beliefs against evidence, will doctor evidence to confirm their belief, and will cherry pick data to prove their belief that they hold despite evidence. But those are all actions that are antithetical to the scientific process. while and endemic to religion.
Re:Steven Pinker makes case for human progress in ‘Enlighten... by piracy1 on Wednesday February 28, 2018 @02:59PM (#16486232)
The article is under the 'religion' section so it seems reasonable that the author (A religious scholar) would have some issues with a worldview based on empirical and provable evidence.
Re:Steven Pinker makes case for human progress in ‘Enlighten... by dcre on Wednesday February 28, 2018 @03:20PM (#16486431)
Wow, really deep thinking here. What a great demonstration of the rationality you apparently worship.