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Re:What Critics Don't Understand About Gun Culture by solipsism on Tuesday February 27, 2018 @11:54PM (#16480768)
The author, like most people who oppose common sense regulations like the banning of assault rifles, sees the world in simplistic black and white. There are bad guys who want to harm people, and who scoff at laws. And there are good guys, who follow laws, are patriots, and just want to protect their family and community.

Of course the world is a lot more complicated than that. Yesterday's good guy is tomorrow's school shooter. Domestic violence, alcohol, mental health disorders, theft, and accidents are all cracks in this simplistic worldview. No matter how you cut it, a world where all the good guys have assault rifles with high capacity magazines is a world where the effects of the inevitable -- the breakdown of social order -- are magnified. A shooting spree instead of a bar fight. A family murder-suicide instead of a black eye and a CPS visit. 20 school children dead instead of 10.

This is what NRA supporters don't seem to understand about the world. They're stuck in a comic book good-vs-evil story and they're the hero.

Re:What Critics Don't Understand About Gun Culture by Turing_Machine on Wednesday February 28, 2018 @12:18AM (#16480849)
> Yesterday's good guy is tomorrow's school shooter.

Sorry, but that's patent nonsense.

Somewhere north of 3 million AR-15 rifles have been sold. The number of mass murders (not all of which use AR-15s, by any means) committed at schools averages about one per year.

http://news.northeastern.edu/2018/02/schools-are-still-one-o...

You should be embarrassed to even make that claim.

Re:What Critics Don't Understand About Gun Culture by yongjik on Wednesday February 28, 2018 @12:44AM (#16480955)
> The number of mass murders (not all of which use AR-15s, by any means) committed at schools averages about one per year.

Only in America you will find someone saying, with a straight face, that one mass murder at school per year does not constitute social crisis...

Re:What Critics Don't Understand About Gun Culture by Turing_Machine on Thursday March 01, 2018 @10:48PM (#16498837)
Way more children drown in swimming pools.

Something like 15 teenagers (comparable to the number killed in Florida) die every day from texting and driving.

Why aren't those things "social crises"?

Re:What Critics Don't Understand About Gun Culture by IntronExon on Thursday March 01, 2018 @11:03PM (#16498898)
More people died from the Spanish Flu epidemic than all of WWI. Was WWI not a crisis? Half of all people who have ever lived, died as a result of mosquito-borne illnesses, do all other causes of death not matter? Shall we stop bothering to develop autonomous vehicles because deaths from automotive accidents pale next to that?

Note that I’m not even attacking your premise that accidental deaths during an activity voluntarily engaged, in some way relates to mass murder.

Re:What Critics Don't Understand About Gun Culture by solipsism on Wednesday February 28, 2018 @12:43AM (#16480951)
You seem to have misunderstood. I'm not claiming most, average, or even many assault rifle owners do anything inappropriate with it. I agree that would be nonsense.

School shootings are rare. Cop murders are rare. No one thinks anyone with a rifle is likely to do these things.

The point, instead, is that in a world full of assault rifles and high capacity magazines and bump stocks, more of these types of things will happen and they will be worse when they do.

This is not rocket science. If it was legal to own RPGs, some people would. And the more people did, the more crazy RPG-related shit would happen. And when we're grieving over a 50 death incident, we'll never be able to prove (to a degree that would convince a member of the National RPG Association) that it would have been 15 if RPGs had been illegal.

Re:What Critics Don't Understand About Gun Culture by adamrezich on Wednesday February 28, 2018 @01:00AM (#16481023)
>The point, instead, is that in a world full of assault rifles and high capacity magazines and bump stocks, more of these types of things will happen and they will be worse when they do.

We can presumably agree that there's more legal civilian-owned firearms in the US than ever before, yet the national homicide rate has steadily decreased since the 90s https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-07-30/chicago Bump stocks were first sold in 2010, yet the homicide rate has still slowly declined since then. How does any of this match up with your belief that more firearms owned by civilians, higher capacity magazines available for civilian use, and even the invention and sale of lesser-known (until recently) novelty firearm accessories such as bump stocks lead to increased violent firearm crime?

Re:What Critics Don't Understand About Gun Culture by solipsism on Wednesday February 28, 2018 @01:18AM (#16481087)
Again with the simplistic views. To claim that the mere quantity of guns (or anything else) alone directly predicts gun deaths (or anything else) would be ridiculous. There are many theories for the reduction in homicide rate. Longer (and mandatory) prison terms, stricter gun laws, more police, etc.

Your argument is equivalent to the guy holding a snowball and arguing that global warming obviously can't be real.

Re:What Critics Don't Understand About Gun Culture by adamrezich on Wednesday February 28, 2018 @02:02AM (#16481256)
I'm not arguing that anything directly proves anything, I was arguing the opposite: that increased legal firearm ownership, including legal ownership of bump stocks, high capacity magazines and what have you, seems to have had nothing to do with overall homicide rate of the country, nor the firearm-related homicide rate of the country. The number of "mass shootings" has increased in recent years though (despite still being an incredibly statistically small cause of death, even when compared to other "preventable" causes of death like drunk driving)… so maybe this indicates that it's not the firearms themselves that are the problem, but other factors not being accounted for in mass media analyses of these events, for one reason or another. For example, SSRIs will never be blamed for anything on television news, as long as pharmaceutical companies advertising on their stations are a core part of their business.
Re:What Critics Don't Understand About Gun Culture by Turing_Machine on Thursday March 01, 2018 @10:45PM (#16498825)
> The number of "mass shootings" has increased in recent years though

Actually, it hasn't (at least for school shootings) despite the impression you'd get from the media. See the link I posted before:

http://news.northeastern.edu/2018/02/schools-are-still-one-o...

Re:What Critics Don't Understand About Gun Culture by solipsism on Wednesday February 28, 2018 @06:25AM (#16482234)
There's an incredibly clear correlation between firearm deaths and gun ownership: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3828709/

And if you don't think high muzzle speed and high capacity magazines increase effectiveness (read: ability to kill more school children faster) then you'd better let our military know.

It really takes willful ignorance to pretend that having higher numbers of more effective killing tools has nothing to do with deaths.

maybe this indicates that it's not the firearms themselves that are the problem

And again. The incredibly simplistic way of thinking. The problem? There are many problems! Properly addressing this would take many solutions. Mental health problems are fundamental to our species and may never be completely be eradicated, but we can do better.

One problem that is not fundamental to our species is the easy access to weapons of war. But we do like our toys, don't we.

Re:What Critics Don't Understand About Gun Culture by jchb on Wednesday February 28, 2018 @12:11AM (#16480827)
Agree with what you say, but better be careful with the term "assault rifle", as the people on the other side of this issue will (correctly) point out that the military definition of an assault rifle includes that it has a fully automatic mode - and such weapons are effectively already banned in the USA. Also, another good one (that that you didn't mention), the weapon name prefix "AR" does not stand for "Assault Rifle".

What to say instead? Perhaps that semi-automatic weapons, and magazines over a certain size, should be banned.

Re:What Critics Don't Understand About Gun Culture by CompanionCuuube on Wednesday February 28, 2018 @12:04AM (#16480797)
You're right. There is too much simplification going on, where people think they're the hero saving others when the truth is not so clear cut as they would like to believe it is.