News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Debt Collection Companies Have Hijacked the Justice System by rayiner on Sunday February 25, 2018 @10:12PM (#16462790)
This is a problem with trying to enforce the law against people who have no money. This is quite a problem with traffic violations. In many states, people get sent to jail over unpaid speeding tickets, not because speeding tickets are punishable with jail time, but because they don't pay the ticket, don't show up to court to address the ticket, don't respond when their license gets suspended, and eventually get pulled over for driving on a suspended license. On one hand, it doesn't seem like people should go to jail for this sort of thing. On the other hand, how exactly are you supposed to encourage compliance from people who can't afford to pay fines and penalties?
Re:Debt Collection Companies Have Hijacked the Justice System by tptacek on Sunday February 25, 2018 @11:02PM (#16463006)
This isn't just poor people; it also me. For the past 15 years or so, the only tickets I've ever gotten are for compliance violations, like out-of-date license plate stickers. But because paying tickets is such a pain in the ass, and once you screw it up it gets weirdly hard to pay them without going to some special 2 hour triage line at a very specific DMV, I've had my license suspended multiple times.

(Once, I just waited it out; eventually, they sent me mail saying my license had been reinstated).

Also: I get so much goddamn junk mail that we can barely keep up with paper mail (I try to have the important stuff sent to my office instead). And a lot of municipal and state process gets routed through paper mail, which is my least effective communications mechanism.

Re:Debt Collection Companies Have Hijacked the Justice System by rayiner on Sunday February 25, 2018 @11:14PM (#16463074)
And at least you have a stable mailing address. Most poor folks don't have one. (Heck, many wealthier younger folks don't have one.)
Re:Debt Collection Companies Have Hijacked the Justice System by morgante on Monday February 26, 2018 @01:40AM (#16463592)
> Heck, many wealthier younger folks don't have one.

This is a huge problem and I really wish more institutions would switch to email/phone services. Mail is incredibly unreliable.

Last year I had a medical bill which I completely missed due to a changing address. It was something I could've easily paid, but I didn't even know it existed until I got a large ding on my credit score.

Re:Debt Collection Companies Have Hijacked the Justice System by JonnyNova on Monday February 26, 2018 @10:06AM (#16465760)
A bad mark on your credit isn't the end of the story for that debt. You should check out if you can still pay it and get the mark off.
Re:Debt Collection Companies Have Hijacked the Justice System by tptacek on Monday February 26, 2018 @04:58PM (#16469344)
Ironically, 12 hours after writing this, I got pulled over for an expired plate and ended up with a must-appear ticket.
Re:Debt Collection Companies Have Hijacked the Justice System by tathougies on Monday February 26, 2018 @07:46PM (#16470279)
You know, you can tell if your plate is expired by looking at the stickers on the back.
Re:Debt Collection Companies Have Hijacked the Justice System by black_puppydog on Monday February 26, 2018 @02:39AM (#16463781)
> how exactly are you supposed to encourage compliance from people who can't afford to pay fines and penalties?

This seems to imply that financial punishment is the only thing that people will react to, and also that compliance is solely a matter of deterrence. I'd argue both are false. You could easily convert tickets into community service etc. Social shaming has made people "compliant" in all sorts of situations for millennia. Handing out a speeding ticket to someone without considering if they'll be able to pay it (i.e. without considering if the punishment is appropriate TM) is making things worse for no good reason.

Re:Debt Collection Companies Have Hijacked the Justice System by rayiner on Monday February 26, 2018 @07:43AM (#16464864)
Community service is forced labor and generally only a punishment imposed for criminal conduct. Imposing it for what should be a civil issue is an escalation.

Also, how do you sentence someone to community service if you can’t get them to show up in court?

Re:Debt Collection Companies Have Hijacked the Justice System by black_puppydog on Monday February 26, 2018 @07:56AM (#16464924)
I'm not a lawyer, and not a U.S. citizen, so I can't speak about details regarding the current legal situation about this. Maybe there are obstacles there, I wouldn't know that.

I do get the feeling however that we're making two different comparisons here. You seem to be comparing the "do community service" scenario to "pay a fine" scenario. I am comparing the "pay a fine. oh, you can't? then do community service" scenario to "pay a fine. oh, you can't? then go to jail" scenario.

Granted, that kind of casy by case justice costs time and effort on the side of the state (i.e. tax payer) but personally, that's just the price of having actual "justice for all".

Re:Debt Collection Companies Have Hijacked the Justice System by rayiner on Monday February 26, 2018 @12:24PM (#16467012)
Jails are different than prisons. Jail is where someone is held pending a hearing on their case. Prison is where someone is sent once it has been decided they are violating the law. Although other countries use different terminology, most have the same distinction between the two.

What happens in these cases is that someone doesn't show up to court. A bench warrant is issued, and they get arrested months later when they get pulled over for speeding or something unrelated, and the police find the warrant. At that point, the court can't immediately drop everything and hear the case. They get put in jail for a day or two until a bail hearing, at which point the court will set a new court date, and decide whether to require the person is required to post bail as a guarantee that they'll show up this time, or whether they'll be held in jail pending the court date. At this point, the judge can't order the person to do community service--they've done nothing wrong other than fail to show up to court, and the only reason they're in jail is the risk that they won't show up for the new court date. Many people can't post the bail, so they sit in jail waiting for their new court date.

No matter how lenient you are with debtors, at the end of the day the court needs some way to force someone to participate in the process of deciding what to do. Even if you say "we'll forgive small debts if the debtor is poor," how do you decide that if the debtor won't show up to court?

Re:Debt Collection Companies Have Hijacked the Justice System by pc86 on Monday February 26, 2018 @08:44AM (#16465162)
Not to mention the fact that people who don't even have enough money to pay a speeding ticket are generally working several low-pay, part-time jobs. Throwing another 10 hours a week of slavery on top of everything else is not a realistic or appropriate response to what was in all likelihood a fairly minor violation.
Re:Debt Collection Companies Have Hijacked the Justice System by stochastic_monk on Monday February 26, 2018 @06:08AM (#16464508)
This is a great point. Fines also strike me as a horribly socially unfair punishment. For someone who's affluent, it means nothing at all (giving them a carte blanche), while for someone who's poor, it can be more than everything they have.

10 years in prison or 50 hours of community service, however, exact what appears to have the same effect regardless of who is being punished.

Re:Debt Collection Companies Have Hijacked the Justice System by pjc50 on Monday February 26, 2018 @06:02AM (#16464487)
I don't know why this is downvoted when it's exactly how it works in a lot of European countries.