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A comment on Bitmain, the largest mining hardware company, made around $4B last year. Parent comment

Re:Bitmain, the largest mining hardware company, made around... by nosuchthing on Friday February 23, 2018 @05:28PM (#16450181)
Proof-of-Stake statistically equates to "Give the rich more money".

Consider Ethereum's stats (and other similar PoS minting methods):

  Presale ICO / Premine ( max cost $0.50 USD per ETH  )
  = 72,009,990 ETH
  
  Total Supply today (Feb 23rd 2018)
   = 97,800,000 ETH

  Source:
  https://etherscan.io/stat/supply
Now imagine a financial system where all the wealthy have to do simply own money (spawned from software or premine) to get more money. Or where voting is done by merely by controlling a large sum of money/tokens.
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Bitmain, the largest mining hardware company, made around... by adadad3442 on Friday February 23, 2018 @06:17PM (#16450479)
>Now imagine a financial system where all the wealthy have to do simply own money... to get more money.

You mean the current system?

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Bitmain, the largest mining hardware company, made around... by nosuchthing on Friday February 23, 2018 @06:39PM (#16450588)
PoS is literally get paid for doing nothing but owning lottery tickets.

Normal capital flow with bonds, stocks, etc allow a legally binding agreement for mutually beneficial transfer of capital between parties.

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Bitmain, the largest mining hardware company, made around... by Anderkent on Friday February 23, 2018 @07:41PM (#16450889)
Well, they get paid for putting that capital at risk and for keeping it locked into the system to provide consensus. It's a kind of a service.
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Bitmain, the largest mining hardware company, made around... by nosuchthing on Friday February 23, 2018 @09:51PM (#16451350)
Except only the top few largest "stakers" are paid, others are either disqualified entirely for being too poor to stake, or will not recieve block rewards for being statistically irrelevant.

PoS is a lottery with reusable tickets. Winners get more tickets.

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Bitmain, the largest mining hardware company, made around... by redka on Saturday February 24, 2018 @04:27AM (#16452496)
PoS is an idea. There are implementation that reward everyone equally for the amount they put it (like semux)
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Bitmain, the largest mining hardware company, made around... by nosuchthing on Saturday February 24, 2018 @10:46PM (#16456989)
interesting, thanks for sharing
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Bitmain, the largest mining hardware company, made around... by jacobr on Friday February 23, 2018 @05:56PM (#16450359)
With PoW you use your money to buy mining equipment and you will get more money, and voting power. With PoS you buy more of the currency with that money instead.
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Bitmain, the largest mining hardware company, made around... by s73v3r_ on Friday February 23, 2018 @07:57PM (#16450970)
Right, but the rest of us also have to suffer due to the economic repercussions (or being unable to get an affordable graphics card without waiting forever)
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Bitmain, the largest mining hardware company, made around... by aianus on Saturday February 24, 2018 @01:08AM (#16451995)
Just pay more for the card and you can have one whenever you want. Isn't that what HN thinks employers should "just" do with tech talent because "there is no real shortage"?
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Re:Bitmain, the largest mining hardware company, made around... by econ_th0 on Friday February 23, 2018 @09:24PM (#16451268)
the economist would say...

"affordable" is a opinion.

the market price is the market price, if you want one you have to pay more.

you are not entitled to a good at the price you think is "fair"

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Bitmain, the largest mining hardware company, made around... by wyldfire on Friday February 23, 2018 @06:33PM (#16450559)
Nano uses dPOS and does not mint any new coins with PoS nor does not charge any tx fees. Instead of "Give the rich more money" it's more like "preserve the value of my money by fulfilling the promise of this coin".
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Bitmain, the largest mining hardware company, made around... by nosuchthing on Friday February 23, 2018 @06:46PM (#16450622)
Nano (aka Raiblocks) is basically a scam.

How was the supply produced and distrubited? https://raiblocks.net/page/frontiers.php?limit=100

Nano/Raiblocks were created from software, a reproducable distributed database protocol. Except in the case of Nano, the vast majority of the tokens are in control of the owners with a few being given away to the public for clicking captchas.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=raiblock+captch...

Consider, anytime you buy a cryptocurrency it means someone else is trying to cash out...

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Bitmain, the largest mining hardware company, made around... by wyldfire on Friday February 23, 2018 @06:58PM (#16450685)
I don't agree, but I do think it's very wise to be suspicious of coins and their distribution mechanism.
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Bitmain, the largest mining hardware company, made around... by seanwilson on Friday February 23, 2018 @07:24PM (#16450819)
> Except in the case of Nano, the vast majority of the tokens are in control of the owners

Do you have evidence of this?

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Bitmain, the largest mining hardware company, made around... by doots on Friday February 23, 2018 @07:47PM (#16450913)
What evidence is there 90% of Nano distribution isn't owned by a single person?

This is a major aspect of transparency in decenteralized p2p protocols, and the issue with Nano is there's no paper trail or proof that the devs didn't take all the supply.

We do know 13% of all Nano in circulation was stolen in the Bitgrail hack.

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Bitmain, the largest mining hardware company, made around... by GhostVII on Saturday February 24, 2018 @08:27AM (#16453166)
Proof of work is the same, except instead of rich people buying more Etherium to get rich faster, they buy more mining hardware.
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Bitmain, the largest mining hardware company, made around... by nosuchthing on Monday February 26, 2018 @06:39AM (#16464616)
Not entirely, PoS disqualifies poor accounts from receiving newly minted block rewards.
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Bitmain, the largest mining hardware company, made around... by trophycase on Friday February 23, 2018 @05:40PM (#16450246)
This is basically how it is now. There is a non-zero risk to staking as well as the stock market/bonds
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Bitmain, the largest mining hardware company, made around... by CodeCube on Friday February 23, 2018 @05:48PM (#16450294)
I'm having a hard time understanding the risk to staking ... is it just an opportunity cost risk ?
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Bitmain, the largest mining hardware company, made around... by bcohn91 on Friday February 23, 2018 @05:59PM (#16450388)
Yes, combined with the risk that the currency could go down in terms of the currency you care about.
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Bitmain, the largest mining hardware company, made around... by CodeCube on Monday February 26, 2018 @10:39AM (#16466000)
Can you retract those funds at any time?
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Bitmain, the largest mining hardware company, made around... by zodiac on Friday February 23, 2018 @06:54PM (#16450662)
What's your proposal for a more egalitarian reward model for block producers (in any consensus model)?
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Bitmain, the largest mining hardware company, made around... by curyous on Friday February 23, 2018 @07:04PM (#16450719)
Proof of work, it requires continual investment if you want to get the rewards, not just sitting there watching the cash roll in.
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Bitmain, the largest mining hardware company, made around... by aoeusnth1 on Saturday February 24, 2018 @09:41PM (#16456833)
How is that more egalitarian? It's still a conversion between capital and income.

It's like saying stocks that give dividends are more "egalitarian" because you have to reinvest them in order to gain the same return on investment.

Absurd.

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Bitmain, the largest mining hardware company, made around... by nosuchthing on Friday February 23, 2018 @07:01PM (#16450698)
Equal payment for the same work/processing power.
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Bitmain, the largest mining hardware company, made around... by zodiac on Friday February 23, 2018 @08:00PM (#16450976)
What does that concretely mean?
[ Parent | on HN ]