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Re:Too Few Women In Tech? Stop Blaming The Men. by philwelch on Sunday August 29, 2010 @05:21AM (#1643501)
"too few women in Tactial Special Ops teams"

There's intermittent controversy over having women in combat. Countries that have tried it, incidentally, find that it's a liability because men tend to go apeshit protective when female soldiers get hurt.

"But I'll never see that because I think secretly deep down they know, gee, people are different, genders are different, and there's something about gender that just has this shaping force on our interests and talents."

If so, it may be helpful if more women were involved in software, because if women are different from men that probably extends to how they use software, and it would be good if software was better for women.

Re:Too Few Women In Tech? Stop Blaming The Men. by dgreensp on Sunday August 29, 2010 @09:46AM (#1643791)
To the latter point, I have a female physicist friend who hates the "diversity of viewpoints" argument for women in the sciences, the idea that she has some kind of "feminine" take on the equations that confers special treatment.
Re:Too Few Women In Tech? Stop Blaming The Men. by jerf on Sunday August 29, 2010 @12:40PM (#1644047)
For sciences, I would agree. Science and mathematics are a foreign mindset for everybody, man and woman alike; if any human wishes to pursue them they must bend to it and not vice versa.

For software I'd be less certain. It is well-known that being your own customer can be a powerful thing. It is not inconceivable that on average men and women may approach computing tasks somewhat differently, different goals, different metaphors, different preferred cognitive frameworks. And while I wouldn't necessarily expect them to be night and day different, as Apple shows getting those last tiny details nailed down can make a huge difference in how a product feels. If men even slightly prefer one thing and women slightly prefer another, an interface tuned for one or another slight difference could manifest as a huge impact on the pleasure of using the software.

Unfortunately, we are reduced to hypothesizing here because I am not aware of any amount of study on the topic. All I can say is that it is certainly conceivable and not necessarily unfair.

I would also suspect that if such differences exist they are likely to be as I said above more in the cognitive domain than in the more stereotypical appearance domain. I don't know per se that women will necessarily respond to a more rounded or pink or whatever stereotypical visual thing you might initially come up with, I suspect it'll be something more like men prefer more spatial organization, say for MP3s, whereas women may prefer more word-based and tagging organization, just to give one example. (And as you can see from that example there's going to be substantial overlap no matter what.) I'm not claiming this difference would even hold true, I offer it merely as an example of a cognitive preference.

Re:Too Few Women In Tech? Stop Blaming The Men. by lingrush on Sunday August 29, 2010 @03:00PM (#1644293)
I am in the same situation as I'm a studying mathematician, but I think she neglects to acknowledge the (extreme) politics of the scientific fields that necessitates a diversity of viewpoints. I know far more people who have issues with that.
Re:Too Few Women In Tech? Stop Blaming The Men. by sliverstorm on Sunday August 29, 2010 @04:46PM (#1644513)
I find myself highly amused trying to imagine what great insight the 'female perspective' might bring to physics (or pure math)
Re:Too Few Women In Tech? Stop Blaming The Men. by steve19 on Sunday August 29, 2010 @11:31AM (#1643929)
Please cite your sources. Many countries have females serving in combat roles.

The same arguments they used 50 years ago to keep woman out of frontline police work are still being used to keep woman out of combat.

Re:Too Few Women In Tech? Stop Blaming The Men. by jacquesm on Sunday August 29, 2010 @07:42AM (#1643653)
> find that it's a liability because men tend to go apeshit protective when female soldiers get hurt.

Solution: all female battalions.

Re:Too Few Women In Tech? Stop Blaming The Men. by epochwolf on Sunday August 29, 2010 @10:11AM (#1643817)
Rush Limbaugh made this suggestion in one of his books. (Albeit with a 1 week on, 3 weeks off rotation)
Re:Too Few Women In Tech? Stop Blaming The Men. by WiseWeasel on Sunday August 29, 2010 @11:54AM (#1643962)
So you're saying the idea is nothing but the deranged rantings of a sociopath? That's an ad hominem logical fallacy, and doesn't refute the actual value of the concept.
Re:Too Few Women In Tech? Stop Blaming The Men. by epochwolf on Sunday August 29, 2010 @01:43PM (#1644158)
I do believe you are reading far too much into my comment. It was merely a stated fact.[1] Given the way Rush Limbaugh is viewed I thought would be mildly amusing to make a slightly off-topic reference.

1. You can search for "amazon" on this page: http://www.nytimes.com/1990/12/16/magazine/the-rush-hours.ht...

Re:Too Few Women In Tech? Stop Blaming The Men. by dmoney on Sunday August 29, 2010 @12:51PM (#1644069)
Wouldn't that just move the problem up the ladder? Commanders less likely to move the female battalions into harm's way?
Re:Too Few Women In Tech? Stop Blaming The Men. by jacquesm on Sunday August 29, 2010 @01:02PM (#1644093)
If you are suggesting that we could stop war by making all the soldiers female and all the commanders male I'm all for it.
Re:Too Few Women In Tech? Stop Blaming The Men. by ErrantX on Sunday August 29, 2010 @03:15PM (#1644316)
Of course the other side needs to have the same bright idea too :) Reminds me of a quote:

"I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world because they'd never expect it"

Re:Too Few Women In Tech? Stop Blaming The Men. by jacquesm on Sunday August 29, 2010 @03:42PM (#1644368)
It would be an instant PR victory for the country with the women though in that case, win or lose they'd win. The rest of the world would go after the 'heartless brutes that killed those poor women'.
Re:Too Few Women In Tech? Stop Blaming The Men. by philwelch on Sunday August 29, 2010 @08:02PM (#1644933)
Yes, that's an effective tactic--win support by setting up hundreds of your women to be slaughtered by your enemies. You don't even have to arm them or equip them to fight, just put them in buses and park them around any legitimate military targets. In fact, it would work even better if you used children?

Needless to say, this idea has been thought of before, and people tend to look poorly on those who employ it.

Re:Too Few Women In Tech? Stop Blaming The Men. by jacquesm on Monday August 30, 2010 @02:06AM (#1645525)
Funny, see, if we really had this gender equality nobody would think twice of it, after all the women are equally capable at combat right?

But we've never seen 'setting up hundreds of your men to be slaughtered by your enemies' as a ridiculous strategy.

They're both ridiculous strategies, and yet we routinely deploy the one and are horrified at the other.

The 'children' bit is just a strawman, as are the 'buses' to use them as human shields. We're talking about prejudice here, and why just changing sex seems to have an effect over and beyond the competence angle.

Re:Too Few Women In Tech? Stop Blaming The Men. by ErrantX on Monday August 30, 2010 @07:13AM (#1645896)
It's just ingrained primitive instinct; and quite simple psychology really. The social "cost" of a Mans death is much much lower than a Womans.

Loss of 80% of the male population could be recovered fairly quickly, but loss of 80% of the females would be devastating for generations.

Re:Too Few Women In Tech? Stop Blaming The Men. by lenni on Sunday August 29, 2010 @07:01AM (#1643616)
I'm interested in the apeshit protective bit. Have you got something to read on it?