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Re:An update on JavaOne by protomyth on Friday August 27, 2010 @03:02PM (#1639811)
"Oracle’s recent lawsuit against Google and open source"

The lawsuit is against Google, not the OpenJDK. It seems disingenuous to keep linking Google's situation with Open Source in general. Google isn't using the OpenJDK. Google didn't want to spend the money and now has to deal with that decision. A simple "We are not going to a conference sponsored by someone suing us" would be good enough. Adobe and Google must have sent their people to the same blog training program.

Re:An update on JavaOne by patrickaljord on Friday August 27, 2010 @05:20PM (#1640318)
> Google didn't want to spend the money and now has to deal with that decision.

It's not that they didn't want to pay, they wanted to make a fully open source mobile OS. Going with OpenJDK would have forced them to make Android GPL which would have been a no-no for carriers and going with Sun's licensed JVM would have made Android not open source. So Google had to go with their own VM if they wanted to have an open source mobile OS based on Java.

Re:An update on JavaOne by protomyth on Friday August 27, 2010 @06:59PM (#1640576)
They wanted Java, but didn't want OpenJDK or a licensed VM. At that point, I gotta wonder why they didn't pull a Microsoft and pick / develop a different language? They use Python a lot. Buying a license from Sun that allowed for a open vm would have probably worked given how money starved Sun was.

/edit/ I should point out I am worried about what other VMs this has implications for and not really liking software patents in the first place (if it can be copyrighted, I don't think it should be patentable).

Re:An update on JavaOne by jrockway on Friday August 27, 2010 @07:15PM (#1640603)
Why would the GPL have been a "no-no" for carriers? Linux is GPL'd, and I'm pretty sure Android uses that.

I can't think of a single Android device that doesn't let you install your own build on it. (After some coercing, of course.)

Re:An update on JavaOne by technomancy on Friday August 27, 2010 @07:44PM (#1640695)
> Why would the GPL have been a "no-no" for carriers?

Because carriers are staggeringly stupid, I think.

> I can't think of a single Android device that doesn't let you install your own build on it.

I wish that were true: "Unlike the DROID, the Milestone has a bootloader that only allows signed Firmware to load. This prevents users from booting Custom ROM images not signed by Motorola that have become popular in the Droid modding community."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_Droid#Motorola_Milesto...

Many Motorola phones are similarly restricted. Did I mention carriers are phenomenally stupid?

Re:An update on JavaOne by jrockway on Friday August 27, 2010 @09:50PM (#1640924)
Didn't that finally get cracked, though?

If carriers really wanted to lock down devices, they would use techniques like the crypto cards ATMs have do. Instead, they do the equivalent of asking you really nicely not to root the device.

Motorola tries harder than most, though, I will agree.

Re:An update on JavaOne by technomancy on Saturday August 28, 2010 @01:54AM (#1641296)
> Didn't that finally get cracked, though?

Not unless it was done quite recently. The Droid X and Droid 2 are still locked down.

> If carriers really wanted to lock down devices, they would use techniques like the crypto cards ATMs have do.

From what I've read the Droid X's bootloader is quite a bit like that.

Re:An update on JavaOne by jrockway on Saturday August 28, 2010 @02:59AM (#1641380)
Re:An update on JavaOne by patrickaljord on Friday August 27, 2010 @08:58PM (#1640843)
The kernel is GPL, but that doesn't stop you to write non-GPL apps on top of it. However, using a GPL OpenJDK would have made every single app on Android GPL.
Re:An update on JavaOne by kjetil on Saturday August 28, 2010 @03:07AM (#1641393)
No, OpenJDK license is GPL + classpath exception:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GPL_linking_exception

Ie. apps that only use the Java system libraries don't have to be GPL'ed, only modifications of the VM itself. Google didn't want to place this restriction on Android vendors.

Re:An update on JavaOne by aphexairlines on Friday August 27, 2010 @11:38PM (#1641094)
The kernel license has an explicit exception to the GPL for user programs: http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/COPYING
Re:An update on JavaOne by patrickaljord on Saturday August 28, 2010 @01:45AM (#1641284)
No, that's related to writing kernel modules. I'm talking about writing propriety apps on a gnu/linux distribution, android in that case. This is totally legal and doesn't depend at all on the kernel license exception. Think skype on ubuntu. However, if the toolkit/sdk you're using on a gnu/linux distribution is GPL, then all your apps will have to be GPL, unless you use a non-gpl sdk or write your own non-gpl sdk as Google did.
Re:An update on JavaOne by hboon on Friday August 27, 2010 @11:17PM (#1641069)
Using a GPL-license SDK makes every app written with the SDK GPL? That doesn't make sense.
Re:An update on JavaOne by aphexairlines on Friday August 27, 2010 @11:48PM (#1641117)
It makes sense from the perspective of a mutually-beneficial open source deal: you link against my open software, so you open yours too.

also, from: http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl.html

> The GNU General Public License does not permit incorporating your program into proprietary programs. If your program is a subroutine library, you may consider it more useful to permit linking proprietary applications with the library. If this is what you want to do, use the GNU Lesser General Public License instead of this License. But first, please read <http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/why-not-lgpl.html>.

Re:An update on JavaOne by ergo98 on Friday August 27, 2010 @03:36PM (#1639938)
If you attack an open-source project (which the pertinent parts are) with general software patents, how is that not an attack on open source? What Oracle is doing is absolutely no different than what SCO was engaged in.

Note that Oracle's general patents on rudimentary VM and runtime characteristics could be applied against any number of non-Java targets. There just aren't many with the pockets as deep as Google.

Re:An update on JavaOne by masklinn on Friday August 27, 2010 @04:35PM (#1640169)
> What Oracle is doing is absolutely no different than what SCO was engaged in.

SCO asserted ownership of code they didn't own and licenses they didn't have. How is that even remotely similar?

Re:An update on JavaOne by ergo98 on Friday August 27, 2010 @06:17PM (#1640473)
Both are extorting open source projects based upon dubious claims. In the SCO case the claim was that Linux consciously or unconsciously borrowed from SCO's purported property because there are superficial similarities. In this case, Oracle is claiming that Android borrowed from their newly gained property because there are superficial similarities to some vague patents which virtually any modern VM runtime runs afoul of.

I think the similarity is overwhelmingly obvious, so demanding that I prove that it is "remotely" similar is pretty aggressive and uncalled for.