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Re:Is developer compensation becoming bimodal? by gaius on Friday February 09, 2018 @03:10AM (#16338684)
Chemical/electrical/mechanical engineers can't use their field to automate their field.

A mechanical engineer designing a new manufacturing technique or robot is most certainly using their field to automate their field. Most of computing exists because electronic engineers used their field to automate their field. Software is not unique in this respect.

Re:Is developer compensation becoming bimodal? by Arwill on Friday February 09, 2018 @03:21AM (#16338718)
Every field is working to automate their field with the help of software. For which you need software developers. The article raises the question of why people are hired as software developers even if they don't have such a degree. Its because companies see it as an automation problem and not as a software engineering problem. That is also why quality or experience of the developer is irrelevant most of the time, there is no one else to judge it, so if its working then its working.
Re:Is developer compensation becoming bimodal? by gaius on Friday February 09, 2018 @03:40AM (#16338782)
Every field is working to automate their field with the help of software. For which you need software developers.

Right, but let's be clear about our terminology here. Automation in mechanical/manufacturing isn't being done by CS grads with skills in RoR employed as software developers. It's being done by MechEng graduates armed with FORTRAN compilers who write a lot of code but don't consider themselves to be developers at all.

Re:Is developer compensation becoming bimodal? by kenhwang on Friday February 09, 2018 @03:59AM (#16338846)
A rose by any other name would smell as sweet.

How different is a MechEng writing FORTRAN for mechanical engineering from a MechEng writing RoR for trendy widget bean button SV startup?

I'd argue they're both programming, which is sufficient to reap some of the benefits of automation. Software engineering can be described as applying engineering to programming. Any company that benefits from programming would also benefit from the increases in efficiency, reliability, performance, etc. software engineering would bring to programming.

Re:Is developer compensation becoming bimodal? by gaius on Friday February 09, 2018 @04:01AM (#16338856)
How different is a MechEng writing FORTRAN for mechanical engineering from a MechEng writing RoR for trendy widget bean button SV startup

Because in scenario A the main skill being applied is mechanical engineering and in scenario B the main skill being applied is RoR.

If everyone who ever writes a line of code is a "software developer" would you include an Excel VBA 10-liner writer? Probably not, and nor would that person include themselves, they're an accountant (or whatever).

Re:Is developer compensation becoming bimodal? by stochastic_monk on Friday February 09, 2018 @08:06AM (#16339871)
I don’t typically think of web developers as software engineers.

I think of work like FFTW and the Tensor Algebra COmpiler (TACO) as software engineering.

Re:Is developer compensation becoming bimodal? by gaius on Friday February 09, 2018 @08:21AM (#16339951)
Whereas when I say "software engineering" I am referring to formal methods, or software components of engineered systems e.g. avionics. Nevertheless - the point is that lots of professions automate themselves. Now that I think about it even a doctor who invents a more effective treatment lessening the workload of other doctors is using medicine to automate medicine.
Re:Is developer compensation becoming bimodal? by kamaal on Friday February 09, 2018 @09:00AM (#16340179)
Not in the same way, or in the same ball park.

Mechanical engineering didn't have its Lisp. We do.

Re:Is developer compensation becoming bimodal? by gaius on Friday February 09, 2018 @09:46AM (#16340499)
Mechanical engineering didn't have its Lisp. We do

The steam engine was more of a productivity multiplier than Lisp could ever dream of.

Re:Is developer compensation becoming bimodal? by kamaal on Friday February 09, 2018 @11:16AM (#16341371)
Steam engine unfortunately can't make itself. So.
Re:Is developer compensation becoming bimodal? by gaius on Friday February 09, 2018 @11:55AM (#16341753)
You most certainly can use a steam engine to make it possible to make a bigger steam engine by driving machine tools. So.
Re:Is developer compensation becoming bimodal? by kamaal on Monday February 12, 2018 @10:26AM (#16359178)
Stream engine can't modify itself. Sorry. Somebody using tool A to create tool B, isn't what we are discussing here.

Tool A should modify itself to become Tool B. And Tool B should modify itself to become Tool C and so on...

Re:Is developer compensation becoming bimodal? by gaius on Tuesday February 13, 2018 @05:11PM (#16371299)
Modify itself? OK, I will grant you that there are no sentient, self-aware steam engines.