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Re:Lisp as Blub by henning on Monday April 14, 2008 @12:21PM (#163236)
I don't get it. The "blub" quality refers to expressiveness, not the robustness of the runtime system or suitability for particular kinds of application development.

To say that Arc is not concerned with brevity or expressiveness is simply ridiculous.

For the record, I think the way Erlang supports functional programming isn't particularly elegant and I think having Prolog-like syntax without Prolog-like semantics is silly.

Re:Lisp as Blub by LogicHoleFlaw on Monday April 14, 2008 @12:51PM (#163257)
having Prolog-like syntax without Prolog-like semantics is silly.

Yes. Yes! I'm not the only one thinking it then!

I think the Erlang process model is brilliant but it really took on the ugliness of the Prolog syntax without attaining the full benefits of the Prolog logical semantics.

Re:Lisp as Blub by giardini on Monday April 14, 2008 @08:06PM (#163627)
I think Erlang is brilliant because it keeps Prolog's unification (matching) but discards Prolog's backtracking in favor of procedural execution.

Unification can be very useful in solving some problems. Backtracking is also useful but sometimes gets in the way. Procedural code can be used to do anything that any language can do and students are more familiar with it. So I think Erlang is an interesting addition to languages. And that's without considering it's more practical aspects, e.g., multiprocessing, failover capability, etc.

Nor is Prolog syntax particularly ugly. A problem is that it is too simple, so simple that novices can become confused. Brna, Boulay and Pain discuss why Prolog is difficult in the book:

"Learning to Build and Comprehend Complex Information Structures: Prolog as a Case Study" http://www.amazon.com/Learning-Comprehend-Complex-Informatio...

See the review there by Randall Heltzerman titled "The Most Unlikely Book Ever to be Published".

Re:Lisp as Blub by KirinDave on Monday April 14, 2008 @05:51PM (#163538)
My misogynistic and politically incorrect, but very accurate, metaphor for erlang is, "The Ugly Girl Who's Great In Bed." You don't mind doing the horizontal polka with her, but she certainly won't win any beauty contests.

That said, a few small changes to the erlang grammar could go a long way towards fixing it (changing separators to terminators, etc). Once you get more familiar with Erlang, you go from writing ugly cascading ifs on multiple conditions to simple clean case statements on tuples. You learn when to use function-clause matching vs. internal matching, etc.

Re:Lisp as Blub by yariv on Monday April 14, 2008 @01:28PM (#163286)
I think that syntax and semantics are largely orthogonal. When you code in Erlang you just don't think about how the syntax resembles Prolog's.

Also, if you prefer to use Lisp syntax in Erlang you can use LFE (http://groups.google.com/group/erlang-questions/browse_threa...).

Re:Lisp as Blub by akkartik on Tuesday April 15, 2008 @10:17PM (#164795)
I remember downloading lfe when it first came out, and being stumped at the first step. I've run some simple erlang examples in the past, that's the level of my experience. Is there an article out there to take an erlang newbie by the hand through and provide the compile/load incantations to get to a simple running lfe program?

Without making any sort of general claim, I notice that what I learn in one session of erlang is very easily lost/forgotten. It's like perl in this respect.

And don't tell me the people who object to erlang syntax haven't tried it :) (I say that about people who object to python's indentation) I've tried it. It's extremely hard to keep in one's head, and takes simply too long to become part of 'muscle memory'.

Anyway, pointers to get started would be most appreciated. It's probably counterproductive to my interests to criticize while I ask for help :)

Re:Lisp as Blub by gruseom on Monday April 14, 2008 @01:47PM (#163314)
I was going to say the same thing. The point he is making (even if true) has nothing to do with the concept of "Blub", and he makes himself look childish by putting it that way. That's too bad. Some of the other stuff I've read by Damien has been solid and I would have expected better.
Re:Lisp as Blub by pchristensen on Monday April 14, 2008 @04:44PM (#163491)
He just sounds like he was dying to piss on pg's tea party. He ended up just pissing into the wind.