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Re:FIA to Introduce Biometric Monitoring Gloves by sandworm101 on Friday February 02, 2018 @08:21AM (#16290302)
What use is this data? How does knowing the drivers o2 saturation after a crash change any procedure? It isn't as if they are ever going to leave him in a wreck for a second longer than needed. He is comming out asap and his 02 measured immediately no matter. Will they pull a driver from a race should his o2 appear to drop? I doubt it.
Re:FIA to Introduce Biometric Monitoring Gloves by avdmerwe on Friday February 02, 2018 @11:11AM (#16291638)
This is meant to serve as an extra data point during the decision-making process when we first get to a driver, especially when we don't have immediate access to them.

As other posters have pointed out, we try to minimise additional risk to the driver and rescue workers as much as possible. Pulling a car out of the barriers quickly could potentially injure a driver that was perfectly fine.

The data will also be useful in post-analysis, as much of the time it can take up to 2 minutes for us to reach a driver at some circuits. If we can see that a driver wasn't moving and had low blood sats, that could be useful info when deciding on further treatment/imaging/etc.

I drive the F1 Medical Car, and came up with this system together with my colleague Dr. Ian Roberts, and have spent the past 2 years developing it. Any questions, ask!

Re:FIA to Introduce Biometric Monitoring Gloves by sandworm101 on Friday February 02, 2018 @07:01PM (#16295235)
Then your guys must be operating in a much lower energy environment than mine. In an aviation crash my driver (air crew) will be inside a mess of aluminum, high voltage wires, fuel and burning carbon fiber. Extraction is the first priority. Unless the pilot is talking and can give a great reason to stay, he is comming out. It isnt so much for his safety but for the five or more rescuers who dont want to be caught in the inevitable fireball. Our SAR guys are backing away from even checking vitals in situ, let alone o2 sat.

In the extreme, ejection seat aircraft often have instructions for activating the canopy/seat on the ground, if necessary to "extract" a pilot. A twice-broken back is better than burned to death.

Re:FIA to Introduce Biometric Monitoring Gloves by avdmerwe on Saturday February 03, 2018 @06:59AM (#16297289)
Interesting to read this. It sounds like the opposite approach a rescue crew would take in a motorsport environment, in most cases.

I guess F1 is a much more controlled environment, due to car and circuit design working together as a safety system.

Perhaps F1 safety focuses on minimising injury when things go wrong, whereas aviation systems are optimised to avoid things going wrong in the first place?

Re:FIA to Introduce Biometric Monitoring Gloves by TallGuyShort on Friday February 02, 2018 @01:59PM (#16293219)
I never seem to be able to think of intelligent questions when I suddenly have a rare opportunity to ask someone cool - so may I just say it's really awesome to see you commenting about this on HN?
Re:FIA to Introduce Biometric Monitoring Gloves by avdmerwe on Friday February 02, 2018 @04:40PM (#16294421)
Personally, I think it's really cool that anyone would post this on HN or even have questions about it!
Re:FIA to Introduce Biometric Monitoring Gloves by blauditore on Friday February 02, 2018 @08:39AM (#16290392)
> It isn't as if they are ever going to leave him in a wreck for a second longer than needed.

Actually, the goal is generally not to pull a driver out of a wreck as fast as possible. For example, if the driver has some broken bones (especially spinal ones), rescuers might want to act carefully to avoid any further damage if the circumstances allow that. But if the wreck is catching fire or the driver is in danger of suffocating (as potentially detectable with those gloves), they'll have to act faster and "trade" potential additional injury for saving the driver's life.

Re:FIA to Introduce Biometric Monitoring Gloves by sandworm101 on Friday February 02, 2018 @09:09AM (#16290568)
And they need/will trust the gloves to tell them if the wreck is or isnt on fire? Fire and/or danger of suffocation happens long before anything these gloves could detect. I know that this data is medically interesting but cannot see how it could impact actual procedure trackside.

Someone will be at the scene asap regardless of data. They will check for fire and breathing issues. If either driver isnt talking or car on fire, driver is comming out now. After out, or sometimes before, gloves are off and other sensors applied. Decisions such as the use of a spinal turn on danger, not medical data: always a spinal unless car about to explode. I dont see the case for this data as it only means something long after more apparant dangers have already dictated decisions.

(In my work i regularly draft ERPs for aviation crashes, a similar senario. I just last month completed a hypoxia course in a hypobaric chamber where o2 sat was a very big deal)

Re:FIA to Introduce Biometric Monitoring Gloves by avdmerwe on Friday February 02, 2018 @11:33AM (#16291820)
This will indeed not slow down anyone's initial response, but it will hopefully give us an insight into what happened before anyone gets there, or while the rescue evolves.

We would have really liked to know what happened while we were underway to the scene in this scenario: https://youtu.be/QOM5SzxEFGU?t=1m50s

And a driver under a few 100kg of Tecpro barriers takes a while to get to: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJN-b-ovkQQ

Re:FIA to Introduce Biometric Monitoring Gloves by HorizonXP on Friday February 02, 2018 @12:25PM (#16292279)
It's also important to note that it's only a fairly recent development that fatal injuries in F1 are a rarity. The previous last death in F1 was Ayrton Senna in 1994, with Barrichello being injured and Roland Ratzenberger dying that same weekend. Ayrton was a big proponent of driver safety, and his death sparked a huge push to improve safety in the sport.

It wasn't until 2014 when Jules Bianchi crashed in Suzuka that F1 saw another death during a race. Now, a biometric sensor probably would not have helped Jules, but it may have alerted the medical team to the seriousness of his injuries. Oximetry and heart rate may not have indicated much, but I think it's a great first step towards other sensors that could eventually be incorporated.

F1 tries to be at the forefront of automotive technologies. Driver safety always has been and should be a huge part of that.

Re:FIA to Introduce Biometric Monitoring Gloves by philjohn on Saturday February 03, 2018 @10:02AM (#16297859)
Indeed - just look at Kubica's 300 Kph crash in Canada[1] - that would more than likely not have been survivable in the early to mid 90's.

The Hans device, protective monocoque, wheel tethers and other incremental improvements are nothing short of stunning, and though he has many legitimate gripes against him, Max Moseley was key in pushing this forward in his time as head of the FIA.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtrzvwayniM

Re:FIA to Introduce Biometric Monitoring Gloves by JshWright on Friday February 02, 2018 @08:58PM (#16295703)
> Driver safety always has been and should be a huge part of that.

But we can all agree no one like the halo... (I kid...)

Re:FIA to Introduce Biometric Monitoring Gloves by avdmerwe on Friday February 02, 2018 @04:44PM (#16294438)
Exactly this. And I'd add that because we are now looking for tiny incremental improvements (most of the big, obvious things have been addressed already), we're going to need some data in the areas we're looking to improve.
Re:FIA to Introduce Biometric Monitoring Gloves by philjohn on Saturday February 03, 2018 @09:59AM (#16297839)
That's why the seat can be removed in one piece, with the driver still in it - acts like a spinal board.
Re:FIA to Introduce Biometric Monitoring Gloves by JshWright on Friday February 02, 2018 @08:35AM (#16290374)
Knowing the patient is critically injured would likely increase the acceptable level of risk to the rescue personnel responsible for the extrication.

It might also change how the incident is handled on track. Generally F1 prioritizes keeping the race going (deploying a safety car only if absolutely necessary). Knowing a driver is critically injured would likely trigger a "red flag" stop to the race, allowing rescue personnel unrestricted access to the track.

Re:FIA to Introduce Biometric Monitoring Gloves by sandworm101 on Friday February 02, 2018 @08:42AM (#16290411)
Really? They are going to move slower on a trapped driver because his o2 sensor says he is still breathing? No. They are going to move at 100% towards any and every trapped driver. And once out of the car his gloves will be stripped and a standard sensor applied, one that can be read directly.
Re:FIA to Introduce Biometric Monitoring Gloves by JshWright on Friday February 02, 2018 @08:46AM (#16290435)
F1 cars are dangerous things. F1 tracks even moreso (when the race it still taking place). They are going to move very slowly and deliberately, checking and double checking all the safety features of the car. They are going to be very careful moving the driver, to avoid potentially exacerbating an injury.

If, on the other hand, they know the driver is dead in a couple minutes without intervention, some of those steps are going to get skipped (that's what I meant by the "acceptable level of risk" changing).

For what it's worth, I'm a firefighter/paramedic, and have cut many people out of (ordinary) cars over the past decade or so.

Re:FIA to Introduce Biometric Monitoring Gloves by alistairSH on Friday February 02, 2018 @11:17AM (#16291696)
They are going to move at 100% towards any and every trapped driver.

Nope. Not true. Track personnel are trained to be cautious. They shouldn't be on a live track unless absolutely necessary. Anything that increases their ability to discern "absolutely necessary" from "not necessary" is a good thing.

[Former amateur race car driver]

Re:FIA to Introduce Biometric Monitoring Gloves by vvillena on Friday February 02, 2018 @09:13AM (#16290594)
No, that's not how they work. Emergency personnel can get the driver out extremely quickly if need be, but if there's no immediate risk they will work slowly to avoid further injury.