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Re:Baltimore Cops Kept Toy Guns to Plant Just in Case They S... by mathattack on Thursday February 01, 2018 @07:24AM (#16281348)
The price for this should be massive. Doing this once or twice corrupts the justice system and destroys public trust in police. This invites gangs to become the law and order. Look how that’s worked out in Chicago.
Re:Baltimore Cops Kept Toy Guns to Plant Just in Case They S... by TeMPOraL on Thursday February 01, 2018 @09:13AM (#16281937)
Yes.

I increasingly believe there are kinds of anti-system crimes which should be punished with highest sentences. I'm thinking of crimes that have disproportionate, negative impact on stability and security of society. Like this. Or fucking with vaccinations, like CIA people did.

(Incidentally, I also believe that the guy responsible for fake bomb detectors (from the other thread on the frontpage today) should get at minimum a murder-level sentence, for willfully putting lives of lots of people in danger.)

Re:Baltimore Cops Kept Toy Guns to Plant Just in Case They S... by icc97 on Thursday February 01, 2018 @10:08AM (#16282315)
Perhaps I'm taking what you say too literally, but you couldn't equate it with murder. It would be mass attempted manslaughter. So it would have to be at that level.

That's not to say we shouldn't treat it as seriously just that it's a different intent.

Re:Baltimore Cops Kept Toy Guns to Plant Just in Case They S... by TeMPOraL on Thursday February 01, 2018 @10:13AM (#16282353)
Yeah, I meant the less literate version. It's obviously not murder, but I believe it should be treated at least as seriously.
Re:Baltimore Cops Kept Toy Guns to Plant Just in Case They S... by Fnoord on Sunday February 04, 2018 @04:52PM (#16305137)
Murder? Quite frankly, that's either akin to terrorism or it is terrorism. It destabilises entire regions of harmless civilians.

The CIA did this as well in Central and South America in the previous century. They got away with it as well, of course. The series Narcos and movies American Made and Che Part One and Che Part Two are albeit partly about these subjects. Not to mention more recently the collateral murder video.

I'm not entirely sure why? I guess if you got the military and economic high ground you get away with doing things like that?

Re:Baltimore Cops Kept Toy Guns to Plant Just in Case They S... by guildwriter on Thursday February 01, 2018 @08:05AM (#16281559)
What goes on in Chicago and its gangs goes far beyond the police and the indiscretions that go on there. Case in point:

http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Magazine/October-2016/Chic...

Drill rap, the music of Chicago's gangs, is ultra violent and serves as a method of calling out other crews and taunting them into a response. Thanks to Youtube, Soundcloud, and social media the spread of this music is now easier than ever. The threats that come from this music are often followed up on.

Why do they do it? As one rapper says: “If I wasn’t doing this, would you even be down here in the low incomes? Would you even care that I exist?” “You know, white people, Mexicans, bitches, those people don’t live the life, but they love hearing about it. People want the Chiraq stuff. They want a superthug ghetto man, and I’m giving that to them. I’m just playing my role.”

Re:Baltimore Cops Kept Toy Guns to Plant Just in Case They S... by Clubber on Thursday February 01, 2018 @08:24AM (#16281654)
Re:Baltimore Cops Kept Toy Guns to Plant Just in Case They S... by guildwriter on Thursday February 01, 2018 @08:29AM (#16281683)
Er no. It's not. I'm not saying police conduct in Chicago isn't an issue. I'm saying that the issues of inner city Chicago are much larger than just police conduct. To properly understand the issue you need to consider all the angles.
Re:Baltimore Cops Kept Toy Guns to Plant Just in Case They S... by Clubber on Thursday February 01, 2018 @08:43AM (#16281755)
Yes, but Chicago seems to be a fairly unique place. Also, most of the police shooting incidents don't come out of Chicago. What are you trying to say by pointing out that gang violence is bad in Chicago?
Re:Baltimore Cops Kept Toy Guns to Plant Just in Case They S... by guildwriter on Thursday February 01, 2018 @09:12AM (#16281935)
The point that I'm making isn't that gang violence is bad in Chicago. I'm trying inform others why and what drives a significant portion of gang violence in Chicago and show it from the perspective of the people who drive that violence and what they're about.

The parent poster was talking about how gangs become the law and order because of the lack of trust in police. I'm saying the issue is wider and deeper than that. If you read the article, it becomes clear that one of the large driving factors for these rappers is the notoriety and fame they get from doing this is oftentimes the only way they can feel significant. It's a way for them to get money, sex, notoriety. Maybe even a record deal so they can get the hell out of the place they are in. What kind of chances and opportunities does an inner city youth really have?

This notoriety can twist back in its own ways too: "The guy having the hardest time was Blaze. He seemed to be battling depression. At one point, after a shooting on a corner, he said to me, “Man, I’m so sick of this. I feel like a prisoner in my own neighborhood. I can’t go anywhere. I can’t go to my job because I don’t know if the opps will be there to come after me.” He was wallowing in how badly he wanted to be done with the gang life. He told me he wanted to move to California, but his reality felt inescapable to him. He started using PCP at an alarming rate. It was his way of coping. He became difficult to be around. He would stutter and trip over his words. His complexion got bad. His hygiene, too."

It's one hell of a life and not one that I could begin to imagine.

Re:Baltimore Cops Kept Toy Guns to Plant Just in Case They S... by Clubber on Thursday February 01, 2018 @02:10PM (#16284780)
I think I saw a segment on maybe Vice about Chicago. Yes, it is a hell scape. There are a lot of reasons, and some date back to the founding of the country. I think presently, the three big ones are: 1. As a country, we don't take care of our citizens, 2. The only solution we have to our societal everyday type problems is to call the police and let them handle it, 3. Police are trained to be police in the traditional sense, so their go-to method is to be aggressive and arrest people.

It's a downward spiral that has been going on for decades. To make matters worse, policing is delegated to the state and local levels, which aren't under the microscope that the federal government is.

It's also not just a black or minority problem. I say this because I believe many white voters are more complacent because they don't believe they would be affected by it. If you are in the wrong place at the wrong time, with the wrong police officer, you aren't immune to disastrous results. White voters shouldn't fool ourselves to believing they are unaffected. Remember blacks get killed disproportionately to the national population, but whites get killed in higher numbers.

It's depressing.

Re:Baltimore Cops Kept Toy Guns to Plant Just in Case They S... by davrosthedalek on Thursday February 01, 2018 @08:58AM (#16281834)
The post guildwriter answered to specifically called out Chicago.
Re:Baltimore Cops Kept Toy Guns to Plant Just in Case They S... by Clubber on Thursday February 01, 2018 @09:08AM (#16281915)
Ah, sorry I missed that.