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Re:Baltimore Cops Kept Toy Guns to Plant Just in Case They S... by daedlanth on Thursday February 01, 2018 @06:38AM (#16281114)
Our US society is sick beyond belief.
Re:Baltimore Cops Kept Toy Guns to Plant Just in Case They S... by squarefoot on Thursday February 01, 2018 @07:15AM (#16281297)
The problem goes way beyond the US borders, and is a clear sign of corruption among the ruling class. When a cop is acquitted for murdering some innocent thanks to some intervention form above, he could become in the future a pawn of a private army for whoever was helping him/her from above. Suppose you're a high profile politician who needs some dirty job to be done, who would you trust more, some thugs recruited around or ex cops who don't serve jail time because of you?
Re:Baltimore Cops Kept Toy Guns to Plant Just in Case They S... by chmod775 on Thursday February 01, 2018 @07:41AM (#16281428)
> The problem goes way beyond the US borders

Name one more western first world country besides the US, where cops shooting someone is hardly news. And no, the problem probably isn't guns.

In the US there's about 1 gun per resident, Germany 0.3, UK 0.06, and Canada 0.3. Meanwhile there were about 987 fatal shootings by cops in the US in 2016, compared to 13 in Germany, 4 in the UK, and 9 in Canada. Even adjusting these numbers for population and number of guns per resident, you will still be off by an order of magnitude.

Re:Baltimore Cops Kept Toy Guns to Plant Just in Case They S... by GrantSolar on Thursday February 01, 2018 @08:14AM (#16281603)
>And no, the problem probably isn't guns.

The biggest factors do revolve around guns though. Not just numbers, but the culture which feeds into itself and the perception that guns are not a problem, but a solution ("The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"). Of course, this then provokes a "Have-a-go-Harry" take on confrontation where people who are woefully ill-equipped to deal with a situation attempt to do so. The lack of training, the fetishisation of guns, and the sheer number of guns are all extremely significant factors in gun crime. Take away any one of these and the rate of gun crime would drop significantly. Unfortunately, any solution has to work within the framework of "no further regulation" to even get close to implementation which rules out swathes of methods

Re:Baltimore Cops Kept Toy Guns to Plant Just in Case They S... by thirdsun on Thursday February 01, 2018 @09:16AM (#16281952)
I agree - from afar there seems to be a very unique culture of fear and urge to "protect" prevalent in the US.

I was reading a reddit discussion some time ago, where most commenters concluded that it's fine to shoot a burglar entering your house at night, which feels very alien to me. Sure, it's a frightening situation, but in my mind a burglary clearly doesn't justify the, potentially deadly, use of a gun. Those are not equal actions and measures.

Re:Baltimore Cops Kept Toy Guns to Plant Just in Case They S... by DrScump on Friday February 02, 2018 @05:27AM (#16289604)

  burglary clearly doesn't justify the, potentially deadly, use of a gun
Problem is, you can't know if it is "just" a burglary until after the perpetrator leaves.
Re:Baltimore Cops Kept Toy Guns to Plant Just in Case They S... by Waterluvian on Thursday February 01, 2018 @08:35AM (#16281714)
Nope this is you guys. I'm pretty relaxed up here regarding our police.
Re:Baltimore Cops Kept Toy Guns to Plant Just in Case They S... by bitlax on Thursday February 01, 2018 @07:30AM (#16281370)
Don't put Baltimore on the rest of us.
Re:Baltimore Cops Kept Toy Guns to Plant Just in Case They S... by kerkeslager on Thursday February 01, 2018 @07:58AM (#16281516)
Is there a US city where cops who murder unarmed black men are convicted with any sort of regularity?
Re:Baltimore Cops Kept Toy Guns to Plant Just in Case They S... by weberc2 on Thursday February 01, 2018 @08:14AM (#16281599)
How many cities in the US have police who "murder unarmed black men" regularly to begin with? Of course if that number is small, then the number of cities who regularly convict them will be small. You can't take the small number of cities that regularly convict as evidence of a problem.
Re:Baltimore Cops Kept Toy Guns to Plant Just in Case They S... by kerkeslager on Thursday February 01, 2018 @08:32AM (#16281708)
Well-documented cases of cops murdering unarmed black men and not being convicted have occurred all over the United States. This isn't a Baltimore problem, it's a US problem.
Re:Baltimore Cops Kept Toy Guns to Plant Just in Case They S... by weberc2 on Thursday February 01, 2018 @01:16PM (#16284203)
1. There are well-documented cases of cops murdering unarmed men and not being convicted. "unarmed black men" is a red herring, because there is no evidence that this happens disproportionately on a racial basis.

2. My claim was that there are not many cities with a trend of cops murdering unarmed black men, so your comment isn't a valid rebuttal, however true it may otherwise be.

Re:Baltimore Cops Kept Toy Guns to Plant Just in Case They S... by kerkeslager on Saturday February 03, 2018 @05:16PM (#16299998)
Your entire claim is a red herring, unless you're claiming it's somehow better that cops murder non-black people and get away with it.

This is like the game where you can say a sentence where emphasis on different words changes the meaning, i.e. "I don't agree that cops murder black people" versus "I don't agree that cops murder black people." In text you can be ambiguous, and if anyone disagrees with your defense of cops, you just back off into the weird statistical claim about race that isn't that important.

So I ask you: are you defending cops murdering people and getting away with it? If not, why are you posting? I suppose it's academically interesting if cops murder all the races evenly, but it sure comes across as if you're defending cops murdering people and getting away with it.

Re:Baltimore Cops Kept Toy Guns to Plant Just in Case They S... by weberc2 on Monday February 05, 2018 @10:58AM (#16309567)
> Your entire claim is a red herring, unless you're claiming it's somehow better that cops murder non-black people and get away with it.

It's not a red herring. The implication that "police murder blacks" is that there is a racist component in police murder, but the data show that this isn't the case, at least not in the last decade. I'll leave it to the reader to decide whether or not this is better or worse.

> So I ask you: are you defending cops murdering people and getting away with it? If not, why are you posting? I suppose it's academically interesting if cops murder all the races evenly, but it sure comes across as if you're defending cops murdering people and getting away with it.

No, of course I'm not defending murder. I'm posting because fixing problems requires properly understanding them. I understand that many people have no qualm with worsening the problems they purportedly care about so long as it lets them get a punch in against some group of people they dislike; however, that's not really my style.

Re:Baltimore Cops Kept Toy Guns to Plant Just in Case They S... by dragonwriter on Thursday February 01, 2018 @01:23PM (#16284296)
> there is no evidence that this happens disproportionately on a racial basis.

There's actually considerable evidence that adverse interactions with law enforcement of all kinds (and not just LE murder) are not evenly distributed by race.

Whether that is a result of deliberate LE racism vs. other factors which contribute to such encounters being distributed disproportionately by race has more mixed evidence.

Re:Baltimore Cops Kept Toy Guns to Plant Just in Case They S... by weberc2 on Thursday February 01, 2018 @01:26PM (#16284325)
Nevertheless, all of the data on LE murder agree that there is no racial disparity in victimhood. We can and should collect better data, but "police disproportionately murder blacks" is not supported by the evidence.
Re:Baltimore Cops Kept Toy Guns to Plant Just in Case They S... by eksabajt on Thursday February 01, 2018 @04:58PM (#16286314)
Do you have a citation for the claim that there is no racial disparity? Here's a ProPublica report that shows a staggering disparity: "Deadly Force in Black and White"(https://www.propublica.org/article/deadly-force-in-black-and...)
Re:Baltimore Cops Kept Toy Guns to Plant Just in Case They S... by weberc2 on Thursday February 01, 2018 @05:49PM (#16286708)
I did a deep dive into the WashPo 2015 and 2016 datasets which are more both more recent and complete than the FBI datasource used by propublica. Further, you can actually inspect in detail the circumstances in which the shooting took place, including whether or not the deceased were armed.