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Re:EFF's Fight to End Warrantless Device Searches at the Border by tptacek on Tuesday January 30, 2018 @01:55PM (#16267876)
No, a bad lane change is not probable cause for a search. How you know that is, upon being pulled over for improper lane change, the police cannot demand a search of your car. I think we're talking past each other.

If you'd like to move the goal posts and talk about roadside detention, fine. But that's (a) not a search and (b) not relevant to the question of whether the border search exception means that tens of millions of Americans are continually exposed to warrantless searches of their devices by dint of living close to a border.

(I didn't say you hadn't read Martinez-Fuerte; I said you hadn't read it carefully. A decent-sized stretch in the middle of the opinion is about exactly this distinction, and reaffirms the fact that LEOs can't search you within a 100 mile range of the country's border).

Re:EFF's Fight to End Warrantless Device Searches at the Border by wnoise on Tuesday January 30, 2018 @04:28PM (#16269208)
Yes, we are talking past each other. I never claimed a bad lane change is probable cause for a search. But searches are not the only thing the fourth amendment is supposed to protect against.

I don't think talking about roadside detention is moving the goal posts at all -- it's an abrogation of the fourth amendment allowed within 100 miles of the border, and has knock-on effects that make searching easier.

I agree that the way the ACLU characterizes the rulings are wrong, and said as much in a parenthetical. But that's not the same as "thus we shouldn't be worried about the fourth amendment being ignored within 100 miles of the border".

Re:EFF's Fight to End Warrantless Device Searches at the Border by Whitestrake on Wednesday January 31, 2018 @02:11AM (#16272136)
> I never claimed a bad lane change is probable cause for a search.

Perhaps not in so many words...

tptacek states that a bad lane change can be given as an excuse for a stop, but not a search, because it is not probable cause. In the following comment, you reject that claim:

> Bad lane change is explicitly probable cause -- it's direct witnessing of a traffic code violation.

A reasonable interpretation of your comment would be an argument that a bad lane change is probable cause for a search. It makes no sense to differentiate "probable cause for a stop", because there is either no such test, or it should otherwise be the same standard as for a search.

On the other hand, I don't think tptacek has tried to give any advice as to whether a person should be worried about this or not.